China Late Taiwan leader Chiang's Order of Blue Sky and White Sun going on block

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[drclaw]

VERY interesting Nick. Thanks for posting all these images and thoughts.

To my mind, the issue breaks down into two questions:

(1) Is the insignia genuine?

(2) Did this insignia belong to Chiang Kai-shek?

There appears to been little debate on (1).

(2) rests on two contentions: First, the reverse inscription of "Special One". It is a strong argument that if anyone might have received a "Special One", it was the Generalissimo who instituted the Order. It also matches the photograph which shows the reverse of the medal on Chiang.

The Taiwan Government has not disputed the claim that an award marked "Special One" was made to Chiang.

Only that it was buried WITH him.

(Awards of Republic of China Orders were numbered so there would have been a central register of awards and recipients. If these records were evacuated to Taiwan after the Civil War, they should confirm or disprove this.)

Which brings us to the second contention: "Before 1995, it was the usual practice to give a new set of the medals to a general who passed away for burial," appears to be a conveniently neat explanation. Yet at the same time, I have not seen the Taiwan Government address this specific claim.

In any case, I'm not convinced that this is entirely critical to the issue.

The better question, which Nick points out, is whether ONLY one set of insignia were ever awarded to Chiang Kai-shek.

This was Chiang's favourite insignia, and the only one he regularly wore, throughout the Sino-Japanese War, the Civil War and thereafter. It would have been a miracle that it wasn't battered into dust and that he might have had one or more replacements or even duplicates over the 45 years from the date of the award in 1930 to his death in 1975.

So in a circular way, it comes back to 1) whether this insignia is genuine.

Given this does not appear to be in dispute, and if we accept that "Special One" was only ever awarded to Chiang Kai-shek, then the conclusion is that this was indeed awarded to Chiang Kai-shek, if not the ONLY one awarded to him.

Gavin

[JPL]

I didn't realized that we'd get as much feedback on this topic when I posted it. Thanks to JapanX for the great images and information. It looks like we're not the only ones wondering about the authenticity of this item, as the medal went unsold at auction as indicated in the news item below:

Chiang's medal fails to sell at Hong Kong auction

A medal given to late President Chiang Kai-shek in 1930 went unsold at an auction in Hong Kong amid a controversy over its authenticity. The item on sale, the Order of Blue Sky and White Sun with Grand Cordon, was reportedly the only one among the more than 200 such military decorations that was awarded to Chiang and inscribed with characters meaning "Special One." Anna Lee, who presided over the Spink & Son auction, brushed off the failure to find a buyer, saying it was not uncommon for auction houses to not sell collectibles on offer.

Asked if pricing was to blame, Lee said the floor price of HK$2.8 million (US$360,988) was relatively low given an earlier estimate of the medal's worth at between HK$3-HK$5 million. Lee also dismissed the link between doubts over the authenticity of the medal and the failure to draw a bid, and reiterated that the medal was genuine. Conflicting claims over the authenticity of the medal were raised before the auction, with Taiwan's defense ministry saying the medal given to Chiang was buried with the late Republic of China president in Taoyuan in 1975.

Chu Kang-ming, who helped appraise the medal for Spink & Son, insisted that the medal on offer was authentic and said the Ministry of Defense had not been able to produce evidence backing up its claim. According to Chu, there are a total of 209 such medals and the one auctioned this time is the only one that is inscribed with the words "Special One." The other medals are inscribed with numbers.

Read the complete article: http://focustaiwan.t...ID=201208240039

Jean-Paul

Edited August 25, 2012 by JPL

[hc8604]

Thanks Nick for more pictures of the medal. The brooch type looks to be aluminum and would date from about the 1960s to 80s. I am not sure if the government want to admit that one of his medals somehow got away, but then again they may say it might be stolen. Only paper documentation would be good.

[JapanX]

Given this does not appear to be in dispute, and if we accept that "Special One" was only ever awarded to Chiang Kai-shek ...

Exactly!

Where from this info about exclusivity of "Special One" came from?

We don't know.

But Spink definitely like this hypothesis

[JapanX]

I didn't realized that we'd get as much feedback on this topic when I posted it.

We really like mysteries Jean-Paul

Not to mention the beauty and rarity (209 in toto)/(uniqueness (if it was Chiang's) of this order!

Thanks for bringing it up!

Regards,

Nick

[JapanX]

Lee also dismissed the link between doubts over the authenticity of the medal and the failure to draw a bid, and reiterated that the medal was genuine.

She sounds like a real professional ...

[JapanX]

The brooch type looks to be aluminum and would date from about the 1960s to 80s.

Definitely!

But it could be a later replacement, because order itself looks a little bit older

I am not sure if the government want to admit that one of his medals somehow got away, but then again they may say it might be stolen.

Their reaction was surprisingly quick

Only paper documentation would be good.

Practically a direct quote from Maj. Gen. Luo Shou-he statement!

Cheers,

Nick

[hc8604]

Yeah it can be a replacement, I am sure with Chiang he probably had more access to the medals if he needs replacements.

To me, I have always thought that if the medals had a polished reverse, it was later 1960s period (after all the mainland made ones were awarded from old stock). The medal toned horribly though. The screw is brass or is it gilded? Also, the ones made before 1949 had transparent blue enamel and you can see the design pattern embossed in the silver underneath; this blue is opaque and you can not see the little design pattern. Just my observation on it...

Today, most ROC medals are dated now with the Minguo year on the reverse along with the serial number.

[JapanX]

The medal toned horribly though.

I actually like this practically black patina

The screw is brass or is it gilded?

Looks like brass to me

Also, the ones made before 1949 had transparent blue enamel and you can see the design pattern embossed in the silver underneath; this blue is opaque and you can not see the little design pattern. Just my observation on it...

Hmmm...

I agree that older pieces usually have more transparent enamel with herring-bone pattern embossed in the silver.

But I saw older pieces with opaque blue enamel and after-1980 pieces with transparent one.

I'll make a small gallery in a couple of days and we graphically discuss this pattern

Feels like this one will be another 10+ pages thread

Regards,

Nick

[hc8604]

Looking forward to it Nick!

Feels like this one will be another 10+ pages thread

Hopefully you don't jinx it....ha :whistle:

[JapanX]

Hopefully you don't jinx it....ha

Absit omen! :lol:

[JapanX]

First of all this additional exellent photo!

[JapanX]

Now let`s start our examination

My friend HC is absolutely right when he is saying that older pieces have more transparent enamel than modern ones.

Please take a look at this specimen # 184.

Obverse

Edited August 27, 2012 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Reverse

[JapanX]

Here it is, this famous and beautiful chinese "transparent enamel with herring-bone pattern embossed in the silver" ;)

[JapanX]

By the way, know we can clearly see the distinction between reverse of the Spink piece and reverse of the "usual" piece

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

That`s how mint piece with this pattern looks like

[JapanX]

Now let`s freshen our memory about this (allegedly) Chiang piece.

A couple of new photos made under decent lighting.

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

One can see clearly that this is another type of enamel

The only question - do all "old" pieces have this transparent enamel pattern?

Please check this piece.

[JapanX]

Close up (enamel work looks pretty close to Spink piece)