drclaw Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Thanks Nick. Could you provide a little more information on the source of this document / list of recipients? It would be great to know for historical research, e.g. how much weight we could attach to the list. It's a fascinating list nonetheless. Zhang Xueliang (son of Zhang Zuolin, the warlord of Manchuria) received the #1 award according to the list. Zhang has become a popular hero. He joined the Nationalists following the assassination of his father by the Japanese and sought to eliminate Soviet and Japanese influence. He kidnapped and imprisoned Chiang Kaishek in April 1936 (the "Xian Incident") to force him to agree to a popular front to fight the Japanese. Chiang never forgave Zhang for his insolence and Zhang spent over 50 years in house arrest. He moved to Hawaii in 1993 and died in 2001 at the grand old age of 100. He lived not only to see the emergence / development of Taiwan, but also China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xueliang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drclaw Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 His statue in Harbin, erected by the Communist Government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Thanks Nick. Could you provide a little more information on the source of this document / list of recipients? I believe I took it from here http://blog.yam.com/rexkuang/article/5283379 Wiki has a section devoted to the cavaliers of this order "Recipients of the Order of Blue Sky and White Sun" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Recipients_of_the_Order_of_Blue_Sky_and_White_Sun Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieter1012 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 If you look at the pictures of Chiang wearing the Blue Sky and White Sun, one can clearly see that the medal had a Japanese style hook and eye on the ribbon to attach to the uniform. Also, the well known Victory medals awarded by Chiang I have seen, all have an hook and eye hanging system. The medal that came up for auction has a brooch type attachment. Pictures of Chiang at older age see him wearing the Blue Sky and White Sun medal as second one in a bar of four medals. In the Chiang Kai-Chek Memorial Hall in Taipei, the generalissimo's uniform which he wore at older age is exhibited with as only medal the Blue Sky and White Sun. Even if the medal at Spink's Hong-Kong auction really belonged to Chiang, I doubt whether he ever wore this one. Pieter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 If you look at the pictures of Chiang wearing the Blue Sky and White Sun, one can clearly see that the medal had a Japanese style hook and eye on the ribbon to attach to the uniform. Some photos clearly show that (#52, #53) and others (especially #47) don't As I said he liked this order (because of the party emblem? ), so there must be several copies (at least!). As for this particular order ... With this price tag they should give us some hard evidence! Not this "couple of experts say so" nonsense!!! Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hc8604 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nick, thanks for posting the pictures. There seems to be variations and probably more than one manufacturer in Taiwan. Unless the reverses are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Unless the reverses are the same? They are different. As you know early one`s has inscription and number. Modern ones have two variants: with inscription, but without number and with simple plain reverse Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hc8604 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I heard the modern ones were given liberally mostly under the previous president. It only made the value of getting the award meaningless. It was something I was told, not sure who received it or why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I am absolutely not going to argue pro or con in the presence of so many experts on this order, but I was intrigued by this comment from the Spink's expert: "Chu Kang-ming, who helped appraise the medal for Spink & Son, insisted that the medal on offer was authentic and said the Ministry of Defense had not been able to produce evidence backing up its claim." What would 'proof' consist of? Digging poor Chiang up again and photographing the medals on his corpse? Somebody's diary casually mentioning 'Oh, and we buried his medals with him. The ones he wore."? An ectoplasmic communication via the Chinese version of a Ouji board? I suspect this one will go into the 'not proven' pile, as both sides of the argument have a vested interest - protecting national pride vs owning a really cool decoration. And neither side is ever likely to admit having been wrong. However, all that aside, the decorations are gorgeous and the depth of knowledge displayed by the gentlemen in this group a constant source of wonder and admiration! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I heard the modern ones were given liberally mostly under the previous president. It only made the value of getting the award meaningless. It was something I was told, not sure who received it or why. Hmmm I don`t know man... I heard these are still quite prestigioso Check this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Here is the latest on this topic: A medal said to have belonged to late Republic of China leader Chiang Kai-shek in 1930 may be put to auction again after the previous attempt in August 2012 failed amid controversy over its authenticity. Anna Lee, vice chairman of Spink China who presided over the medal's auction last time, told CNA that the owner of the medal has contacted Spink China again and that the item is likely to be auctioned again this summer.Lee said the owner contacted the house recently after sources in both the United States and Taiwan found that "the medal was indeed authentic." The medal went unsold at the auction last August.The item, the Order of Blue Sky and White Sun with Grand Cordon, was reportedly the only one among the more than 200 similar military decorations awarded to Chiang that was inscribed with Chinese characters meaning "Special One."The medal would have brought in an estimated HK$3-5 million (US$386,622-$644,370) for the owner last time, Lee said, but she was confident it would fetch a higher price than that if successfully sold this time.Conflicting claims over the authenticity of the medal were raised before the 2012 auction, with Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense saying the medal with the marking the Special One" was buried with the late ROC president in Taoyuan in 1975.Chu Kang-ming, who helped appraise the medal for the auction house, insisted that the medal on offer was authentic and said the defense ministry had not been able to produce evidence backing up its claim.According to Chu, there are a total of 209 such medals and the one auctioned this time is the only one that is inscribed with the words "Special One." The other medals are inscribed with numbers. Read the complete news item at: http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aedu/201305030024.aspx Jean-Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Anna Lee, vice chairman of Spink China who presided over the medal's auction last time, told CNA that the owner of the medal has contacted Spink China again and that the item is likely to be auctioned again this summer. Girls ... Lee said the owner contacted the house recently after sources in both the United States and Taiwan found that "the medal was indeed authentic." Same old, same old ... Good thing that the "sources" are still "reliable" According to Chu, there are a total of 209 such medals and the one auctioned this time is the only one that is inscribed with the words "Special One." The other medals are inscribed with numbers. Déjà vu ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drclaw Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 (edited) Yup, Nick, deja vu. Even if I DID have half a million USD to spend on a medal, I'd be wanting irrefutable documentary provenance. Without that, all you have is an expert opinion. Given the difference in price between a Chiang Kai-shek and non-Chiang Kai-shek specimen is probably their estimated price less $10,000, that's one EXPENSIVE expert opinion. The seller's contention appears to rest on two claims, neither of which appears to have been proven beyond doubt: * Chiang Kai-shek was the ONLY person to have received a "Special One"; AND * This PARTICULAR specimen belong to Chiang - as opposed to a production sample, an unissued specimen, etc. As for the argument that it was for the Defence Ministry to prove that Chiang was buried with the medal, thought we've already seen photographs of Chiang in his casket wearing the medal. Edited May 5, 2013 by drclaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 The seller's contention appears to rest on two claims, neither of which appears to have been proven beyond doubt: * Chiang Kai-shek was the ONLY person to have received a "Special One"; AND * This PARTICULAR specimen belong to Chiang - as opposed to a production sample, an unissued specimen, etc. Indeed! Instead of providing some hard proofs they keep on saying that "the medal ... authentic and ... the defense ministry had not been able to produce evidence backing up its claim." Ridiculous! To say nothing about this (equally ridiculous) price estimate: "between $386,622-$644,370". Price tag that was set "strictly for the fat cat" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 This is just an example of good marketing. Let's face it, it's in everyone's interest (except for the buyer) to have the item sell at the highest price possible. Question is, if it does go up for auction again, will there be a buyer this time around... Jean-Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 This is just an example of good marketing. Marketing? Undoubtedly! But was it good? Childish statements like "sources in both the United States and Taiwan found that the medal was indeed authentic" + Unrealistic price + "Rumble in the jungle" with Taiwan Defence Ministry = UNSOLD I'd say amateurishness at its best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drclaw Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Given the international and local HK, Chinese, Taiwan press coverage I'd say it was VERY GOOD marketing for the auction house. Four rounds of frenzied media reporting - in the lead-up to the first sale, the failure to sell, the lead-up to the second sale, and ... the likely failure to sell. You can't buy publicity like that as a company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Given the international and local HK, Chinese, Taiwan press coverage I'd say it was VERY GOOD marketing for the auction house. You can't buy publicity like that as a company! So it was an ingenious PR stunt ... [Gasp of admiration] I thought they were trying to sell this piece... and ... the likely failure to sell. :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Good thing Chiang doesn't know what they are doing with his beloved order these day ... Box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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JapanX Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Miniature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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