Berlinerbummel Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Friedrich Ritter von Röth is another Bavarian who became a German flying ace in WWI. His is a rather sad story - suicide after the was was lost. Röth was credited with over 20 victories. A google seach indicates the EKI and EKII and Hohenzollern House Order, but I wonder if he did not also receive Bavarian orders, the MVO 4 for example. Any asistance will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Per O’Connor, Volume II, page 239: Oberleutnant Fritz Ritter von Röth known awards – Orden Pour le Mérite – Prussia Military Max Joseph Order – Bavaria Military Merit Order, 4th Class with Swords – Bavaria Royal Hohenzollern House Order, Knight’s Cross with Swords – Prussia Iron Cross 1st & 2nd Class – Prussia Pilot’s Badge - Bavaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlinerbummel Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Was the Max Joseph award a neck medal or a ribbon bar medal? What was the grade of the medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Well - let's put it this way - it was the knight's cross and Bavarians did not wear it from the medal bar during WWI.. The MMJO was worn alone from the button hole. Those from other kingdoms, grand duchies, duchies, etc wore the knight's cross from the medal bar but not Bvrarians as stated. The commander's cross was worn at the throat but I know of only one company grade officer who was awarded this cross and as I recall - it was posthumous. One pilot (a captain) was recommended for the commander's cross but was KIA before the award was granted so it was revoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlinerbummel Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTTER76 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 I've read the Max Joseph Order was awarded to him posthumously in 1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 References not currently in hand so I can not quote date but - yes - his award was both posthumous and post-war. Bavaria continued to make awards after the war but always referenced an "official" date that reflected "the" or at least "a" notable action that justified the award. While there were post-war awards of the EK I & II - I am not aware of any other Prussian awards granted after the abdication. Of the other major states (by my reckoning only - those that fielded at least one pre-war regular corps - Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, Wurttemberg & Baden) - these were the only post-war significant awards. As I recall - the Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha - a card carrying NAZI - made awards of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order and I think awards from Lippe were made as well but again - they were not comparable to the "top five". Perhaps someone can hop in here with more definitive information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTTER76 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Angolia's book "The Pour le Merite and Germany's First Aces" of 1984, states the following: "He was also awarded the Military-Max-Josef Order, but the award never reached him while he was alive... he committed suicide... on 1 January 1919". Still needed some extra info. I guess. Prior to this he was awarded of course the Pour le Merite on 8 September 1918. Ranked #44 among german aces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Well - let's put it this way - it was the knight's cross and Bavarians did not wear it from the medal bar during WWI.. The MMJO was worn alone from the button hole. Those from other kingdoms, grand duchies, duchies, etc wore the knight's cross from the medal bar but not Bvrarians as stated. Sorry, that isn´t right ! Bavarian officers wore the MMJO also on a medal bar, have a look at the picture from Pracher Otto Ritter von, Major, bayer. Reserve-Feldartillerie-Regiment 1 – 09.05.1915 – † 1917 he is wearing his MMJO, BMVO 4 with crown and swords, EK 2, Saxsony Albrechtsorden 1. with crown and swords. Regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Wow! Hard to dispute photographic evidence! I stand corrected and apologize to all for any confusion I created. This is the first case I've seen of wartime wear of the MMJO on the medal bar by a Bavarian! In hopes of defending my somewhat tarnished credibility - my source for the statement I made relative to Bavarians war time wear of the knight's cross of the MMJO was O'Connor, Volume I, page 9. I may have messed this one up but at least I am in good company! Thanks for the clarification & regards! wem Sorry, that isn´t right ! Bavarian officers wore the MMJO also on a medal bar, have a look at the picture from Pracher Otto Ritter von, Major, bayer. Reserve-Feldartillerie-Regiment 1 – 09.05.1915 – † 1917 he is wearing his MMJO, BMVO 4 with crown and swords, EK 2, Saxsony Albrechtsorden 1. with crown and swords. Regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Hello Wem, no problem ! We are all collectors and I´m happy that I could help. Here are his pre war great ribbon bar, his war ribbon bar and his medal bar missing all decorations. Regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 An example on a medal bar. This is the bar of Kurt Ritter von Scherf, in the collection of the Bavarian Military Museum in Ingolstadt. Because of its high prestige, Bavarians, especially after World War I, did often wear the MMJO as a buttonhole decoration. I recall seeing photos of one wearing his as a neck decoration, probably because he considered it equal to the Prussian Pour le Mérite. Regarding the MMJO: There were usually three dates associated with an award, (1) the date of the action for which it was awarded, (2) the date the order was bestowed, and (3) the date of the patent of nobility as "Ritter von". If you were already a noble, (3) didn't matter, and after the abdication of the king, there weren't any more patents anyway. Still, these later receipients could legally change their names under Weimar-era laws to include the "Ritter von". For Friedrich Ritter von Röth, the date (1) of the action was 25 January 1918 and the date (2) of bestowal was 21 April 1920. Regarding his other awards:09.09.18 - Prussia: Pour le Mérite (8.9.18)25.02.18 - Prussia: Knight's Cross with Swords of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern01.11.17 - Prussia: Iron Cross 1st Class03.10.15 - Prussia: Iron Cross 2nd Class11.06.17 - Bavaria: Military Merit Order 4th Class with Swords27.02.18 - Bavaria: Military Merit Order 4th Class with Crown and Swords20.08.17 - Bavaria: Pilot's Badge16.08.18 - Germany: Wound Badge in Black Best regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRBeery Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 One of my good, off-line collecting friends has an EK1 engraved to this man! I have seen pictures and it looks correct to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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