DonM Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) My Grandfather was in the Seaforth highlanders. His service recorgds show that he was “Decorated by HRH the Duke of Albany (Regency Duke of Sax Coburg & Gotha) with the decoration “Silberne Medalles des S. Ernest” d. 20.8.10.” I contacted the Gotha Archives who were very helpful and sent me a number of records, one of which showed that he was awarded a gold (not silver) medal in Fort George on August 15, 1911 for loyal service. The Gotha archives had no record of why he was awarded the medal but said “The loyal services of your Grandfather should evidently relate to services accomplished in military actions as the medal was issued to military personnel only.” I thought that I would be able to find a something about the medal at the Highlanders museum at Fort George but they have no record of him having received it. Can anyone tell me why a British soldier could have received this medal. One clue might be that it related to the Boer War and that he was involved in some action with a member of that family. This could have been Prince Arthur, Duke of Connaught and Strathearn, who saw service in South Africa, or more likely, his son, Prince Arthur of Connaught who was in the in the Boer War and saw active duty with the 7th Hussars at Krugersdorp and my grandfather was also there. If it was related to the Boer War a reason for the change from a silver to gold medal could be that by 1911 he had been promoted to sergeant. Any help would be appreciated. Edited October 16, 2012 by DonM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It's totally new to me the merit medals of the Ernestine house order were for military personnel only - and I don't believe it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Don, do you have possession of the medals? I would really like to see this combination. And as Sascha says, the medal was not exclusively a military award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Pictures, we want pictures! Of the medals, of your grandfather, the whole megillah! Thanks, Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am afraid I do not have the medal but I do have a picture of it as sent to me by the Gotha Archivist. Unfortunately I cannot work out how to attach it - I don't seem to have an upload button. I am not very good at this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2012/post-14588-0-56944600-1350569629.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2012/post-14588-0-76462400-1350569724.jpg Above are the two files I have attached. The first is the medal in question & the second is my grandfather in France at the end of WW1. Unfortunately, I do not have the medal but would like to purchase one if anyone knows where I can do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Great photo, aside from the MC, what other medals is your grandfather wearing? Regarding the Saxon cross, these come up from time to time on German ebay, or you could look at some German dealers such as Weitze or Huesken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Love the pictures. The Seaforths have been rare on this site. Cuidich n Righ! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Many thanks for your replies - although I am no closer to finding out why he received that medal! The medals he received were the Queen's Medal with 3 clasps, Wittebergen, Transvaal & Cape Colony; The King's Medal with 2 clasps, 1901 & 1902; the Military Cross; the 1914 Star; the British War Medal & the Victory Medal. I also have a transcription of his diary for the first year of WW1. As the pictures were of interest, I have attached some others. Was only able to upload one taken at Fort George - the others were too large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 If the he was “Decorated by HRH the Duke of Albany (Regency Duke of Sax Coburg & Gotha) with the decoration “Silberne Medalles des S. Ernest” d. 20.8.10.”, the award of which you got pictures of by the Gotha archive is totally not the award your grandfather got... a shame the archives are giving wrong information! The proper one is this here, minus the WW1 era sword clasp: http://www.ehrenzeic...bandspange.html Unfortunately, I'm not having one of these in stock at the moment... Check vol. 80 of DGO's member magazine for a similar combination... unfortunately in German only: http://www.deutsche-...t-der-magazine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thank you Saschaw, I had a feeling that you would come up with something. I have checked & found that Carl Eduard was the fourth and last reigning Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, two duchies in Germany (from 30 July 1900 to 14 November 1918), and the head of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha from 1900 until his death in 1954. As he was awarded the medal in 1910, the Carl Eduard medal (wthout the swords) is the one he would have received. I presume that is correct. I made the mistake of assuming that the archives would have sent me the correct image!! Was that medal both a military & non military award? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sascha is right, they sent you a picture of the Merit Cross with Swords of the Ernestine House Order. The medal was given to both military and civilian personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thank you all for your help, especially Saschaw for putting me right regarding the medal - I would off searching for the wrong one!! As to why he received the medal, I may never know. Mind you, they are setting up a new museum at Fort George, so who knows what might come to light when that is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Carl Eduard was named honorary Colonel of Seaforth Highlanders sometime after 1900 & held that position until maybe 1917 when he was deprived of his remaining British honors & titles [Carl Eduard received a KG in 1902--George V removed his name from the KG roll in 1915]. Carl Eduard therefore decorated a number of Seaforth Highlanders officers and senior enlisted men [those serving in 'his' regiment ] with Ernestine House Order awards. Usually, such awards stemmed from protocol exchanges and/or Carl Eduard's visits to Seaforth encampments. As you mentioned, the regimental museum at Fort George close to Inverness likely has much more information on the association between Carl Eduard and the Seaforth Highlanders, perhaps including detailed information on your grandfather's award. Ernestine rolls may be another source to consult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) That picture of the Merit Cross came from the archives in Gotha? So not only do the archivists not know the different classes of the order, which is not surprising based on my experiences in German archives, but the image they sent you was the one on my website. That particular cross was sold in an auction by UBS in 2007 and UBS gave me permission to use their catalog photos. Whether he got the merit cross or the silver or gold merit medal is mainly a matter of what rank he was when he was decorated. I am not sure exactly how Saxe-Coburg would have done it for a British soldier, but most likely merit cross for warrant officers, gold medal for sergeants and maybe corporals and silver medal for privates and lance corporals. Liverpool Medals in the UK has a golden merit medal in silver-gilt here: http://www.liverpool....r.-L11122.html They also have a few examples of silver merit medals. Edited October 20, 2012 by Dave Danner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thank you Dave, I have ordered that medal. The picture Gotha sent me was indeed from your website. By the time he received the medal he was a sergeant, so you have confirmed what I thought was the reason for the medal being changed from silver on his service record to gold when he was actually presented with it a year later. It seems strange that Fort George has no record of him having received the medal - they could not even tell me why he received the Military Cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thank you 922F, as you suggest, he may have received the medal on behalf of the regiment, it was something I had wondered about because of the dates. I have to get in touch with Fort George on another matter and will check again to see if anything new turns up when things are sorted out for the redevelopment of the museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonM Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 I have just come across an extract from what is possibly the Ernestine rolls mentioned by 922F. It tells me that Sergeant Donald Munro received a gold medal at Fort George in 1911 for loyal service. So it would seem that Carl Eduard as honorary Colonel of Seaforth Highlanders paid a visit to Fort George & had to present a medal to someone. My grandfather was the soldied picked to receive it & as my grandchildren would say "that's pretty cool!!" Thanks again for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B93 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 922F is probably pretty close. Prince Charles Edward of Albany (Prince Leopold of the UK, 1st Duke of Albany's posthumous son & heir) was the COL-in-Chief of the Seaforth Highlanders like his father before him. He was, thus, a British prince and the 2nd Duke of Albany, long before he was ordered (by Queen Victoria) to take up the vacant post of (German) Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha. All of the above posts seem to suggest this as a legitmate, if routine, medal swapping (for lack of a better label). "Carl Eduard", as he was known in Germany, ended up on the wrong side in the Great War. Despite being ordered there by a British monarch, he wound up stripped of his British titles by act of another British monarch, for having followed the royal dictate. "Bitter" seems the best label for how the former duke felt and how he conducted himself afterwards. You are probably aware the he ended up as a pet of Hitler. No Seaforth Highlander (or anyone else) would have had any notion of that future infamy, in 1911. Your grandfather appears to have commanded all the respect of an honorable, professional soldier. Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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