Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hello Chip!

Thank you for your uniform declarations! I´m always be amazed, that you´ve got a shoulder strap for every single branch of service! But now to your questions. Here we go:

Res.Radf.Kp.78: First belonged to the Radf.Btl.1. (2nd.Inf.Radf.Brig.), left this Btl. in sept. 1918 to become a MGK in the Radf.Btl.7. It became demobilized in Jg.Btl.10

Radf.Kp.201: First belonged to the 201.Inf.Div., later Heeresgruppe Kronprinz Rupprecht, then 4.Armee, then, 17.Armee. It became demobilzed in Jg.Btl.2

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 199
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Andreas,

Do you think there is a chance that this 201 strap could be the Gebirgs-MG-Abt. Nr.201? I'm wondering if the mountain MG units wore graugruen?

Chip

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chip!

I don´t think so. Please have a look at Kraus.

He wrotes, that Geb.MG.Abtl. the grey-green uniforms of the MG-Abtl. Those shoulder-straps had red pipings (bavarians green).

Bikers instead had Jäger uniforms with green pipings

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andreas,

I know that the GMGA had the uuniforms of the MGA, but there was a point at which the MGA units dropped the special uniforms, so I am assuming that the GMGA did the same.

Chip

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andreas,

Kraus says that with the new uniform regulations of 1915/16 that the special unforms of the MG-Abteilungen were discontinued. From then on, the detachments should wear the unform of the unit they are assigned to, that is, an infantry or cavalry tunic. So, essentially, from that point, graugrün uniforms were no longer being officially worn.

Chip

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andreas,

Kraus says that with the new uniform regulations of 1915/16 that the special unforms of the MG-Abteilungen were discontinued. From then on, the detachments should wear the unform of the unit they are assigned to, that is, an infantry or cavalry tunic. So, essentially, from that point, graugrün uniforms were no longer being officially worn.

Chip

Chip,

That´s right for MG-Abtl., but NOT for Geb.NG-Abtl.! Kraus writes, from dec.8, 1915 the reygreen uniforms had to be continued to wear. ( > 2. Gebirgs-MG-Formationen - Felduniform)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andreas,

So, then you are saying that there should be a M1915 graugrün shoulder strap with red unit number and red piping for the GMGA? I have never seen such a thing or heard it described. Do you feel certain that the piping would not have been green?

Chip

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chip!

Like Kraus said:

C.IV Maschinengewehr-Truppen

Felduniform M1907: "Feldrock. In Preußen graugrün. Alle Vorstöße ponceaurot"

Neuuniformierung 1915/16: "... fiel die besondere Uniform der MG-Abteilungen fort Die Abteilungen sollten die Uniform desjenigen Truppenteils anlegen, dem sie angegliedert waren."

2. Gebirgs-MG-Formationen

Felduniform: Von der Abschaffung der graugrünen MG-Uniformen wurden die Gebirgs-Abteilungen nicht betroffen..."

28.5.1915: The Geb.MG.Abt. were set-up in may 1915. Then they wore the uniforms of the regular uniforms of the MG-Abtl. (greygreen shoulder-straps, red pipings). The bavarians had fieldgrey shoulder-straps, light-green pipings.). (2.9.1915 Württembeg ; Bavaria wore the fieldgrey uniforms, because they didn´t know the grey.-green uniforms)

21.9.1915: Abolition of the greygreen uniforms for MG-Abt, BUT NOT for mountain troops!

So every Geb.MG.Abt. had red-piped, greygreen shoulder straps. To me it sounds, like the Geb.MG.Abt. didn´t have the M1915 Bluse, but only the Waffenock. Please check your photos

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi IrishGunner!

Are you sure with FAR19?

The lying man has a pre-war uniform

They all have a carbine (mounted troops)

Most of them are much older than the left and the right one

Maybe there is a brass number upon the lying mens shoulder strap, so we have the Res.Feldart.Rgt.19

But why does the lying man wearing saxon cuffs???

Because of they are quite old, I assume it is an ammo column

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, good questions. I went with FAR 19 since there is not an "R" on the pickelhaube cover with the 19. I am a bit confused as to why the mixture of uniforms and a reserve unit or a munitions column would make sense... Perhaps a munitions column for FAR 19? Didn't artillery firing batteries also have the carbine?

Here's a shot of the shoulder strap of the old guy lying in front... Looks like embroidery to me...not metal.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, good questions. I went with FAR 19 since there is not an "R" on the pickelhaube cover with the 19. I am a bit confused as to why the mixture of uniforms and a reserve unit or a munitions column would make sense... Perhaps a munitions column for FAR 19? Didn't artillery firing batteries also have the carbine?

Here's a shot of the shoulder strap of the old guy lying in front... Looks like embroidery to me...not metal.

Slontcha IrishGunner!

Well, so it´s not reserve. BUT, why does he have saxon shoulder boards and saxon cuffs?????

The Feldart.Rgt.19 came from Erfurt (XI.AK)

If the Ammo colums were mounted, thex had carbines too.

But this night I won´t get any sleep because of the saxon-question! :whistle:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, it's a good question. Interesting, Fußartillerie Regt. 19 is.... Kgl. Sächs. 2. Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr.19 from Dresden

FuAR 19 wore a green Waffenrock with red collar and Sachsen cuffs with "squared" green straps w/ red piping w/ exploding bomb w/ red 19.

Our lazy guy in front could be lost from FuAR 19...

And now that I zoom more on the shoulder straps of our EK2 heroes in the back... I see that there is only a "19" and no exploding bomb. They also look to be piped on the edge in a lighter color. They would match the fact that on the first feldgrau uniforms the Fußartillerie shoulder straps were field gray with white piping and red unit numbers (thanks to Chip from another past thread!).

So... Here it now looks like we have a bunch of old guys from Kgl. Sächs. 2. Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr.19

You can sleep easy now Andy! :cheers:

(PS: Rick Research's words of advice to never collect foot artillery are ringing in my head! :P )

Edited by IrishGunner
Link to post
Share on other sites

That makes sense, but I don´t understand, why they created a wrong shoulder strap??? The 19 with a bomb can´t be squared ones! Never! But here is the proof...

I know why Rick said, "never collect foot artillery"... Here is a list of those unites, set-up by Fott-artillery regiment 19:

Peace formation:

2. Sächs. Fußart.Rgt.Nr.19

Regiments:

Fußart.Rgt.19

Res.Fußart.Rgt.19

Independent bataillons:

58, 64, 96, 104, 105, 107, 160, 404, Landwehr 19, Landwehr 67, Ersatz 19, Landsturm XII.AK

Independent batteries:

123, 298, 440-442, 494, 508, 567, 587, 625, 685, 695, 740, 753, 788, 789, 1015

Other:

Park-Kompanie Res.19, , Landwehr 19, 45, 115, 142, Lichtmeßtrupp 44, Schallmeßtrupp 23, 110

Maybe we have on of the other 19ers???

Link to post
Share on other sites

That makes sense, but I don´t understand, why they created a wrong shoulder strap??? The 19 with a bomb can´t be squared ones! Never! But here is the proof...

Well, never say "never".

According to the chart on Kaiser's Bunker; "Nr. 19 wore a green Waffenrock with Ponceau red collar and Sachsen (Saxon) cuffs with "squared" green straps w/ red piping w/ exploding bomb w/ red 19"

I always thought Tony's Kaiser's Bunker site was a reliable source...

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/New/af0.htm

Link to post
Share on other sites

Andy, without your questioning the shoulder straps, I would have continued calling these guys FAR 19! Only name I can hit you with is..."helpful"! I have a lot to learn about "my" artillery guys... Thanks for the great back and forth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Blog Comments

    • Sounds great other than the Orange & Mango squash only because I prefer cran-pomegranate juice.
    • "(...) disgusting herbal concoction (...)" I took note of this description, to enrich my otherwise limited, English "Wortschatz"...
    • At work the standard indian tea such as PG tips is referred to as chimp tea. This goes back to the days when we had a Spanish girl working for us whose command of the English language was extremely limited. One lunch she said she was going to the shop could she get anything. I asked if she could get a pack of tea bags. She returned with some disgusting herbal concoction. I tried to explain what was required but without success. I then remembered PG tips had a picture of a chimpanzee on the packe
    • When I read Lapsang Souchong i decided to post something about these Tea . Many years ago I dont  know about Lapsang until I read James Michener book Centennial and the description of the savour of the Lapasang as a mix of tar and salt & smoked made me proof . It was exact ! and i liked it since then .
    • I have been known to drink Lapsang Souchong and Tea, Earl Grey, Hot... both "without pollutants". I normally have one mug of coffee in the morning, then spend the rest of the day drinking Orange & Mango squash (by the pint). Then evening comes and it's a pint, followed by red wine with dinner and sometimes a drop of Laphroaig afterwards.
×
×
  • Create New...