Turkey TWM certificate

[lew]

Couple of TWM documents... I have no clue about the text

Edited March 15, 2013 by lew

[lew]

Awarded to Ober maschinist maat on SMS Baden...

Edited March 15, 2013 by lew

[lew]

[lew]

2nd piece.

Something is written in the top left corner...

Edited March 15, 2013 by lew

[lew]

[TerryG]

Here's one of mine

Edited March 17, 2013 by TerryG

[TerryG]

and here is a translation done by a Turkish friend a few years ago. I assume the wording remains the same on all....

[TerryG]

As you can see there is some doubt about the spelling of the man's name as I believe the original would have used a phonetic spelling in the Ottoman version. This is the box the cert came with. Obviously addressed to the man's wife or daughter. Name is Schampp I think.

Edited March 17, 2013 by TerryG

[demir]

The first document with holes on the right:

In old Turkish:

Başçavuş Folker (In the wreath) (Turkish Spelling)

Bin üç yüz otuz iki ve otuz üç seneleri harbinde Bader sefine-i harbiyesinde iken menafi-i devlet-i aliye emrinde hidemat-ı takrirkarane göstermiş olduğunuzdan dolayı nam-ı akdes hümayun hazret-i padişahiye olarak sana harb madalyası verildi. Bundan böyle dahi her halde kanun dairesinde ifa-yı hüsn-ü hidmetle iktisab-ı feyz ve memduhiyyete sa’y ü gayret eyleyesin.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal of Harbiye Nazırı Enver

(Sergeant Major Folker) (Turkish spelling) (In the wreath) (Ober maschinist maat Völker on SMS Baden)

During the war in the years one thousand nine hundred fourteen and fifteen while you were serving in the warship Bader./

for your highly admired services for our sublime country /

you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan. So that/ from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal (Enver Minister of War)

Reverse: In the box from left:

Ordusu

Kolordusu

Fırkası

Alayı

Taburu

Bölüğü

(Memleketi)

Bader Sefine-i Harbiyesinden

Makine Başçavuş Almanyalı

Folker

In the box from left:

Army

Corps

Division

Regiment

Battalion

Company

{ THE PLACE OF BIRTH }

Machinist Sergeant Major Folker of Warship Bader from Germany

Edited March 17, 2013 by demir

[demir]

Second Document:

I think Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler was serving under the Army Auto unit no: 715 in Palestine where the Yıldırım Armies Group was deployed at the end of the war.

Regards

Demir

Başçavuş Muavini Paul Rusler (In the wreath)

Bin üç yüz otuz iki ve otuz üç seneleri harbinde vezaif-i mevdûanda hüsn-i hidmet ve say-ü gayret göstermiş olduğunuzdan dolayı nam-ı akdes hümayun hazret-i padişahiye olarak sana harb madalyası verildi. Bundan böyle dahi her halde kanun dairesinde ifa-yı hüsn-ü hidmetle iktisab-ı feyz ve memduhiyyete sa’y ü gayret eyleyesin.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal (Enver Minister of War)

( Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler) (In the wreath)

During the war in the years one thousand nine hundred fourteen and fifteen While implementing your duties given to you /

for your Good services and continous effort /

you are granted the War Medal by our esteemed imperial majesty, his royal highness Sultan. So that/ from now on you will continue to carry out your duties within law in the best way possible and spend special efforts to receive praises and to reach higher levels.

Signature (of Enver Pasha)

Seal (Enver Minister of War)

Reverse:

Ordusu Yıldırım

Kolordusu

Fırkası 715 numrolu ordu otomobil kolundan

Alayı

Taburu

Bölüğü

(Memleketi)

Başçavuş Muavini

Paul Rusler

signatures

30 Nisan 1334 Yıldırım Kumandanlığı (seal)

Reverse:

Army : Thunderbolt

Corps

Division Army Auto Corps no: 715

Regiment

Battalion

Company

{ THE PLACE OF BIRTH }

Assistant ? Sergeant Paul Rusler

Signatures

30 April 1918 Yıldırım (Thurderbolt) Headquarters Seal

Edited March 17, 2013 by demir

[Dave Danner]

Rusler is not a German name. It may the Ottoman spelling of Roßler, Rosler or Rußler. Maybe Rößler or Rüßler. For a language where vowel differences are as important as Turkish, the Perso-Arabic script was a terrible choice. Would "Başçavuş Muavini" correspond to an Offizier-Stellvertreter?

The unit is likely Armee-Kraftwagen-Kolonne Nr. 715, which was part of Army Group Yıldırım.

[demir]

Yes the names are all written in Turkish spelling like the first document:

(Sergeant Major Folker) (Turkish spelling) (In the wreath) (Ober maschinist maat Völker on SMS Baden)

--------------------

"Muavin" in Turkish means 'assistant'. So "Başçavuş Muavini" (sergeant major's assistant) is rank lower then 'Sergeant Major' - (Başçavuş) and according to Wikipedia 'Sergeant Major' is lower then Offiziersstellvertreter (Warrant Officer).

[Dave Danner]

But those are modern ranks. The Imperial German and Ottoman armies didn't have warrant officers. I can't find a good reference to the Ottoman equivalents to German enlisted ranks, but I think it was something like this:

Başçavuş - Feldwebelleutnant

Başçavuş muavini - Offizier-Stellvertreter

Çavuş - Feldwebel

Çavuş vekili - Vizefeldwebel

Onbaşı - Unteroffizier

Onbaşı vekili - Gefreiter

Asker - Soldat (Grenadier, Dragoner, Pionier, etc.)

One problem is that there were fewer ranks in the Ottoman Army. If I remember correctly, one went from Onbaşı (no stripes) to Çavuş (one stripe) to Başçavuş muavini (two stripes) to Başçavuş (three stripes), but I may be off. Do you have any documents or information on documents where we know the actual German rank of a German recipient, as well as what was written in osmanlıca?

[demir]

Hi,

For the Ottoman NCO ranks please see:

History of NCO Rank Insignias in TURKEY
WRITTEN by: Air Sergeant Major Salim DİKDURAN

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/files/file/40-nco-rank-insignia-used-in-the-turkish-army-since-1876/

or see the chart below by Air Sergeant Major Salim DİKDURAN

According to this chart 1914-1918 period:

Onbaşı (Corporal) - No stripe

Çavuş (Sergeant) - 1 stripe

Başçavuş Muavini - 2 stripe

Başçavuş (Sergeant Major) - 3 stripe

Edited March 18, 2013 by demir

[infantry]

Hi,

There was one more rank for the Ottoman NCOs which was "Takimbasi" (literally head of the platoon). The rank tab of Takimbasi was four stripes on the shoulders. This rank was created in order to establish German rank system as closely as possible.

Cheers

Edited April 10, 2013 by infantry

[jaba1914]

Here my one and only document.

Awarded to Hptm Hans Arndt as leader of Feldfliegerabteilung 66 (later renamed to Fliegerabteilung 34) , Xanthi (Bulgaria).

And here the german document

Regards

Alex

PS: Thank to demir for translating this document

Edited August 3, 2013 by jaba1914

[demir]

Alex,

Very well kept document, very nice.

Is it possible to tell us what is written on the seal. As far as I see it is "oberkommando von hag---- Turkische ---"

regards

Demir

[jaba1914]

Oberkommando von Mackensen. Türk. Bevollm. Generalstab??

Regards

Alex

Edited August 3, 2013 by jaba1914

[demir]

Thanks

Regards

Demir