WW2 and Korea War for Sth. African.

[Mervyn Mitton]

A friend recently brought this group in to show me - it is in the Family and will not be sold. However, I thought a few

photos might be of interest - I am not researching-it. I think Brett would like it - Korea is one of his specialities. Mervyn

The group is for - Captain George Dodson DFC

There are his WW2 medals - followed by what I think are US awards. He was with the South African Squadron in Korea and was a pilot. The DFC is in the Bank - so, not available for a photo. His Korean group includes the rare South African Volunteers

medal - named to Lt. G.C.S.Dodson. Then his UN medals and finally, the Sth. Korean award. I think they awarded a later

comm. medal which has not been claimed.

Hopefully Brett can tell us more about him - the SA medal is shown at 1500 pounds in the MYB.

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[Mervyn Mitton]

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[Mervyn Mitton]

Are these US Awards ?

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[Mervyn Mitton]

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[Mervyn Mitton]

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[Mervyn Mitton]

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[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

Here is a question... I think that is a US DFC... can it be that he does not have a brit DFC but a US one?

The group looks to be wearing mounted, so I dont see where another DFC would fit on the bar?

[gavinmedals]

Are these US Awards ?

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Yes, they are the American Distinguished Flying Cross and the Air Medal. In terms of the former there were about 48 awarded to South Africans for Korea and 178 Air Medals.

Regards

Gavin

[gavinmedals]

Hi,

Here is a question... I think that is a US DFC... can it be that he does not have a brit DFC but a US one?

The group looks to be wearing mounted, so I dont see where another DFC would fit on the bar?

Hi Mervyn / Chris, thank you for showing the group, it is a great group. I am fortunate to have a few pilot groups in my collection. For interest sake there is a SA Korea pilot group to Naude with an American DFC and Air Medal on the currect City Coins Auction, Auction 63.

I have checked Forsyth's rolls and there is no reference to him having received the British DFC.

Cheers

Gavin

Edited April 11, 2013 by gavinmedals

[Spasm]

Ooops too late

Edited April 11, 2013 by Spasm

[Chris Boonzaier]

Do Americans have non aerial flights as well???

[Mervyn Mitton]

Chris - that thought occurred to me as well. Although you will note that the SA Vol.Medal has the Queen's Crown and cypher - this was

the 1950's. The Korean War was under the sphere of influence of the US - so it may well be one of their DFC's. I will try to find out.

I have just phoned the chap that brought in the Group - it is an American DFC. He says the first one was taken away following a fight -

and later restored. This would make it very unusual. He will bring it in next week for photos. Is one of the medals on the Bar the US DFC ?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

yes, the US medal on the left, the cross like thing with propellar

[Mervyn Mitton]

The question now - is what medal do they have in the safe ? We will have to wait until next week. Mervyn

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is a question..... when SA was no longer "British" and had its own medals, agreed that campaign medals were mounted in order of the campaign... but could it be argued that the US DFC should maybe take the first place on the bar?

[gavinmedals]

Hi, while waiting for the medal from the safe some of the following info for further consideration, unfortunately I am not near some of the references that I normally use at hand however there is a photo of Dodson in the book "2 Squadron in Korea" page 27. Brent's book says there were 55 USA DFC's awarded to South Africans for Korea. He completed 75 sorties and served Korea from 4 March 52 to 19 Aug 52. He completed his tour on the F51D Mustang. The Cheetah Squadron formed part of the 18th US Fighter Bomber group.

In terms of the order of wear the group is not correctly mounted assuming that he was only serving in the SAAF and the correct order as I have it would be as follows:

SA Korea medal, 39-45 Star, Italy Star, War medal, Africa Service medal, USA DFC, USA Air Medal, UN Korea, South Korea Medal.

According to my information he also received the Distinguished Unit Citation emblem during this time. I have at times seen the USA medals worn after the UN Korea.

Cheers

Gavin

Edited April 11, 2013 by gavinmedals

[gavinmedals]

Here is a question..... when SA was no longer "British" and had its own medals, agreed that campaign medals were mounted in order of the campaign... but could it be argued that the US DFC should maybe take the first place on the bar?

Chris, the USA DFC was seen as a foreign award and would thus not be mounted in the front of a South African group according to the order of precedence. As I recall the only "foreign" medal that received precedence over the South African series of awards, even after the Republic was established in 1961, was the Victoria Cross.

Cheers

Gavin

[Brett Hendey]

Mervyn

An excellent group! Thank you for showing it. The similar group that will be sold today on the City Coins auction will be a good guide to the commercial value of Dodson's group.

I think that Gavin has comprehensively answered all the queries that have arisen.

Regards

Brett

[azyeoman]

What a great group!

[Brett Hendey]

The group on the City Coins auction sold for SA R36 300 (= 2590 GBP), a little over R10 000 above the top estimate.

Brett

[Chris Boonzaier]

Did the city coins one have the US DFC?

Best

Chris

[Brett Hendey]

Yes, Chris. The group of eight medals is as follows:

SA Korea Medal, 1939/45 Star, War Medal, Africa Service Medal, US DFC, US Air Medal (with Oakleaf Cluster), UN Korea Medal, Korean Korea Medal.

US DUC ribbon bar.

During WWII, Lt (later Captain) J H Naude flew flying boats on anti-submarine patrols out of Durban and therefore qualified only for the 39/45 Star. There is an impressive citation for the US DFC.

Such medal groups are good research subjects, since there are usually extensive service records available.

Regards

Brett

[Chris Boonzaier]

Nice group!

[Shaftong]

Hi, Captain George Dodson was a close family friend. I am still in contact with both his daughters. After seeing this forum I asked one of his daughters if she new any thing about the second DFC. She said, as far as she knew, he was awarded two US DFCs in Korea and did not have the British one. The first DFC was taken away after a fight with an American Major. (Apparently George was protecting one of his ground crew.) He was awarded the second DFC a week later. As far as his daughter knows the first DFC was never restored.

George also piloted Liberators with 31 bomber SAAF in south Italy during the second world war. He flew with 31 bomber dropping supply to the Polish resistance during the Warsaw uprising. His daughter thinks he may have been awarded some polish decorations as a result of the Warsaw drop but she can fined no record of them in his personal papers.

Is there any way I can fined out if the first DFC was restored and if he does have any Polish decorations and can his daughter still claim the later com mention at the start of this discussion?

Thank you

Craig

[Paul R]

I have never heard of a medal revoked for a fight with an officer before.