Württemberg Two Sample Württemberg Verdienstkreuz X Groups

[Guest Rick Research]

The Traveling Museum was by yesterday, and having noted post by Peter J and questions from Paul R and bryansk1959 concerning WVKXs... here are two rather conflicting "typical groups" that are COMPLETE:

The medal bar here is on a sub-species of South German mounting: too big to really work as a ribbon bar, and too small to make a pretty medal bar. But this fine fellow was obviously a career Feldwebel type from his long service and wartime awards... not to mention that Württemberg Life Saving Medal (!) on the end--

Edited July 18, 2013 by Rick Research

[Guest Rick Research]

THAT fellow not only got to wear BOTH his silver Military Merit Medal (all of which were gazetted, believe it or not) AND his WVKX, but note the precedence he wore them in.

Reverse of the WVKX for thoroughness,

and closeups of the Life Saving Medal--lists of which should be somewhere.

These three should be enough someday to return this senior NCO's NAME to posterity.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Rick Research

[Guest Rick Research]

However... here's a ribbon bar which clearly has a silver MVM in front of the WVKX. ???

This is my one--and only--WVKX ribbon bar out of about 900 over 40 years.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Rick Research

[Paul R]

Wow Ricky! That is a beautiful bar.

[Paul R]

So the WVKX was only awarded 900 times?

[Guest Rick Research]

Just over 2,300. Senior NCOs, but also Feldwebelleutnants. I guess you'd have to count them as Warrant Officers, had any existed back then.

That little silver cross with the delicately gilded swords is that much rarer than some old RKEK or DKiG or that other WW2 zinky stuff. Sniff.

[Ulsterman]

The life saving medal I noted seem o have the most wear, which made me wonder if this chap had won it earlier in his life.

[saschaw]

and closeups of the Life Saving Medal--lists of which should be somewhere.

Somewhere? It's even yet (in 2010, actually) published, in the great work on Württemberg by Klein and Raff, on pages 186 to 188.

Drop me a line when you want it emailed. Due to copyright and respect for the authors, I don't want to post scans in public.

[Guest Rick Research]

Obviously too many of us are not adequately publicizing our awards reference books, since I always bought anything that came out--knowing one chance is all we ever get. (Mine are still available from 2008, BTW...)

If that book is still in print/currently available please post full title, ISBN, price, and where to get. If sold out and "out of print" then the same information would help Wrttemberg collectors unaware of that to track one down. I've been told Danoiel's and mine are now aappearing on Amazon as rare (certainly! ) and out of print (ayuh) but... we're both still alive, still have some--and for less than re-sellers are apparently getting!!!

I don't have email--I'm on a borrowed computer HERE.

[saschaw]

If that book is still in print/currently available please post full title, ISBN, price, and where to get. If sold out and "out of print" then the same information would help Wrttemberg collectors unaware of that to track one down.

You think there are Württemberg collectors unaware of that? Seriously... ?! Well, maybe after being offline for some years.

They are:

- Klein, Ulrich und Raff, Albert: Die Württembergischen Medaillen von 1797 - 1864 (einschließlich der Orden und Ehrenzeichen). Stuttgart 2003. ISBN 3-936047-00-6.

- Klein, Ulrich und Raff, Albert: Die Württembergischen Medaillen von 1864 – 1933 (einschließlich der Orden und Ehrenzeichen). Stuttgart 2010. ISBN 3-936047-02-2.

I bought mine from Uwe Bretzendorfer, who still has some of them in stock per 120,- Euro each (http://www.bretzendorfer.de, items 103173 and 103081), and found also Michael Autengruber has them (http://cms.orden-der-welt.de, items L1000 and L1361), also per 120,- Euro each.

Both are to be recommend - both books as well as the dealers.

Edited August 13, 2013 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

Oh.

I have volume 1.... "before my time" so never looked for another. Too many school prizes for children and not enough Real Medals way back then.

[saschaw]

Your "volume 1" is actually volume 2, as there's even one with pre-1797 stuff.... but that one's not even on my bookshelf.

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, thanks to saschaw for sending me the W® Württemberg Lifesaving Medal Roll, with that 3rd award it HAS now been possible to identify the one--the ONLY--holder of the Traveling Museum medal bar shown starting this thread--

Feldmagazin Inspektor-Stellvertreter Eugen SCHAAF.

Sillver Military Merit Medal in the 26 March 1915 K.W. Militär-Verordnungsblatt:

note that his rank and that of his comrades was entered INCORRECTLY. They were--with WsMs--"Deputy Inspectors," NOT "Inspectors! It does, however, say that he was with the Feldproviantamt of Generalkommando K.W. XIII. Armeekorps.

Next up, the altogether rare Württemberg Lifesaving Medal MVB of 19 May 1917 awarding that per 13.05.17--

and finally, Merit Cross with Swords per 04.10.17 in MVB of 10.10.17--

All it takes is endless work that has already been finished and inter-contintenal cooperation. AND the right period sources, of course!

[Claudio]

Amazing research work...

I will put mine too... Maybe some of the forumites have already seen it; it has been in my collection for more than 20 years and 18 years after I found the ribbon bar which went with. A fellow collector had the ribbon bar in the collection and I immediately recognized the combination and also the label on the back...

Enjoy...

ciao,

Claudio

[Guest Rick Research]

That has got to be--the usual recipients of the Wehrmacht 40s--some sort of "Ministerial-Amtsgehilfe" sort of Beamter who had clawed his way up to the educational glass ceiling of rank equivalent to an Oberleutnant--the place "college boys" started their careers.

Not literally impossible, but a hellacious amount of cross-checking between the WVKX Roll and May 1939 army administrative officials Stellenliste.

...

Don't stay up late tonight, waiting!

[dedehansen]

Now that we are talking about WVK X maybe this one is possible to trace too ?

EK 2

MVK X

Hanseatenkreuz Lübeck

Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

Chinadenkmünze br.

DA 12 years

Regards Andreas

[Claudio]

Don't worry Rick, I wasn't planning to... I never thought that that group could be researchable...

ciao,

Claudio

[Guest Rick Research]

With 993 suspects who cannot be immediately eliminated, no first names, nothing to link say an Unterzahlmeister Schmidt to an Amtsmann Schmidt... EEK! EEK! EEK!

But better odds than before, eh?

Edited August 20, 2013 by Rick Research

[dedehansen]

Now that we are talking about WVK X maybe this one is possible to trace too ?

IMG_0035.jpg

IMG_0035a.jpg

EK 2

MVK X

Hanseatenkreuz Lübeck

Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

Chinadenkmünze br.

DA 12 years

Regards Andreas

Just over 2,300. Senior NCOs, but also Feldwebelleutnants. I guess you'd have to count them as Warrant Officers, had any existed back then.

That little silver cross with the delicately gilded swords is that much rarer than some old RKEK or DKiG or that other WW2 zinky stuff. Sniff.

Hello Rick,

is it possible to ID this one ?

Greetings Andreas

[Guest Rick Research]

No-- NCO in WW1, probably an ordinary soldier/sailor in 1900. "Invisible."

IF the Hamburg Hanseatic Rolls had been transcribed, to compare against the WVKX.....

[dedehansen]

No-- NCO in WW1, probably an ordinary soldier/sailor in 1900. "Invisible."

IF the Hamburg Hanseatic Rolls had been transcribed, to compare against the WVKX.....

Hello Rick,

it´s an Lübecker Hanseatenkreuz, an I thought these Rolls are there ?!

Regards

Andreas

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I am not functioning today, sorry. Overtired and allergies affecting my eye.

There are NO naval WVKXs listed--by which I can only asume they are MISSING, not that there were none. I suspect from the combination it's navy. Can't find a "KP" match.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Rick Research

[dedehansen]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I am not functioning today, sorry. Overtired and allergies affecting my eye.

There are NO naval WVKXs listed--by which I can only asume they are MISSING, not that there were none. I suspect from the combination it's navy. Can't find a "KP" match.

Thank´s for trying Rick, may be some times in the future when the Rolls from the Marine can be located

Andreas