Prussia Rote Adler Ribbons...

[Chris Boonzaier]

How does one know if someone got a black and white ribbon or a red and white on? What were the different Criteria?

Thanks

Chris

[M Hunter]

Dear Chris,

I believe those awarded on the black/white ribbon had swords, whereas those awarded on the red/white ribbon, did not.

Best wishes

Matt

[Dave Danner]

To the first question: the award document or the reference (rank list, DOA, Ordensliste) will say so: "am schwarzen Bande mit weißer Einfassung" or "am weißen Bande mit schwarzer Einfassung" or something similar.

To the second question: as Matt says, most awards on the black/white ribbon were also with swords. In addition, most awards on the white/black ribbon to medical personnel were with swords. Awards on the white/black ribbon without swords were for homefront merit.

There were, however, a small number of exceptions. A handful of awards were made on the black/white ribbon without swords. There was at least one award with swords on the statute ribbon (to an Ottoman officer). There were also a few awards on the ribbon of the Rettungsmedaille.

All this applies to the 4th Class. The 3rd Class had even more complicated variations, since it depended not just on what the award was for, but on whether one already had the 4th Class and in which version.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Thanks for the explanation guys.

It is a complicated award!!

[Komtur]

It is a complicated award!!

Indeed.

The different ribbons for the Prussian Orders (Red Eagle Order, Crown Order, House Order of Hohenzollern) were defined in 1864 on the occasian of the war with Denmark. The black ribbon with white stripes, also known as Combattant Ribbon, can be traced back to the Iron Cross ribbon from 1813 and goes primarily with the sword decorations of the three orders above. This regulation was only for natives, foreigners received sword decorations on the statute ribbon, what we can see especially for Austrians, Turks and Bulgarians in WW1. Because of the creation of sword decorations in 1848, some years before the ribbon regulations in 1864, we find awards "mit Schwertern" of the Red Eagle Order on the statute (white ribbon with red stripes) before 1864 also for Prussian natives. These persons were allowed in 1864, to change their ribbons to the black and white combattant version. More complicated are the regulations for the white ribbon with black stripes, also created in 1864 for the main three Prussian Orders. The tradition of this kind of ribbon goes also back to the 1813 Iron Cross, in this case of its noncombattant ribbon. It is related to services in the context of wars, but for not directly fighting persons. Therefore we find this ribbon mostly awarded to military officials ("Militärbeamte"). If these persons were in direct contact to the fight or front ("im feindlichen Feuer"), they received decorations with swords on the white/black ribbon, if they were not, without swords on the white/black ribbon.

Decorations on non statuary ribbons are rare. In the period form 1848 to1918 were about 112.000 awards of the Red Eagle Order 4th class. In the same period we find about 3.200 awards of this class of the Red Eagle Order with swords and (from 1864 on) with the black/white ribbon. More scarce are awards with the white/black ribbon - in the same space of time there were about 560, half with and half without swords. Higher classes of the Red Eagle Order with the white/black ribbon are rarities with low single- or double-figure award numbers. These numbers are similarly for the Prussian Crown Order.

Some exceptions are mentioned by Dave.

Regards, Komtur.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Komtur