Imperial Russia Red Cross Medal for the Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905

[paja]

Greetings gentlemen,

I have recently acquired this Red Cross medal, thoughts and comments on it are more than welcome (especially when it comes to it's originality).

Thanks in advance!

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-7937-0-45350900-1382613798.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-7937-0-00580500-1382613822.jpg

[paul wood]

Radmillo,

This is the samller version, 24mm, unfortunately I can't make the marks out on the suspension ring above the cross.

I can't see anything obviously wrong with it.

Paul

[Rogi]

Looks great Nice find Radmilo

[paja]

Thank you very much Paul! It is 24mm, and the marks on the suspension ring are unfortunately unreadable (at least I can't read them).

Thanks Rogi, I'm glad that you like it

Edited October 24, 2013 by paja

[paul wood]

Radmilo, I agree totally illegible, just i havve seem some with clear marks on.

All the best,

Paul

[paja]

Paul thanks again, does that mean that you have seen these medals with illegible marks as well? Is this a bad indication?

Best regards,

Radmilo

[paul wood]

Radmilo,

Illegible is more likely. The medals were given to those who served with the Russian Red Cross and those who made donations during the Russo-Japanese War and from 1907 those who served with the military. Medals wer produced by private companies rather than the official mint, hence the numerous variations known. Unlike the majority of Imperial Campaign medals we have no figures for the numbers issued.

Paul

[paja]

Paul,

Thanks for clarification! Those marks concerned me. Is it maybe possible to determine who was the producer of this medal?

Regards,

Radmilo

[Rogi]

The marks on the medal itself would only concern me if the medal or order was a higher degree (ie St. Anne)

They had a slew of really high quality fakes around the 70s of those all with illegible markings.

Nothing to worry about with this one

[paul wood]

Radmilo,

Only if you can read the mark.

Paul

[paja]

I thought so Paul, too bad..

Rogi thanks for the warnings

Edited October 24, 2013 by paja

[Chuck In Oregon]

I have an attributed example of this medal and yours looks good to me, but I am NOT qualified to determine authenticity. I bet JapanX will check in on this. He has a pretty good feel for this sort of question.

Chuck

[JapanX]

This one was established on January 19, 1906 by order of N-II

Known diameters are 21, 23, 24, 26, 28 and 30 mm.

As Paul mentioned already this one was awarded to military personal after March 27, 1907.

The right ribbon for this one will be Alexandrovskaya ribbon (ribbon of Alexander Nevsky Order - plain red one)

Marks on Radmilo medal are simply unreadable.

Usual story with these medals

Most likely (judging by guillochage) this one was made by unknown St.Petersburg workshop (usually such medals have mark "84 АР" (АР -initials of assay master Alexander Romanov) + sometimes personal maker mark (like ИЛ for example)).

Cheers,

Nick

Edited October 25, 2013 by JapanX

[JapanX]

According to the original regulation this medal was awarded to

«...лица, служившие в их Канцеляриях, заведывавшие складами и трудившиеся в них; уполномоченные, агенты... врачи, фармацевты, сестры милосердия, студенты... фельдшера, санитары, артельщики, лазаретная прислуга, так и на пунктах разного наименования перевязочных, приемных, санитарных, питательных и ночлежных, а равно и служивших по эвакуации»

+

«...лица, сделавшие более или менее значительные существенные приношения деньгами и вещами, а также содействовавшие поступлению пожертвований».

According to the original regulation medal should be worn

«...на Александровской ленте на левой стороне груди по желанию при всякого рода одежде. При орденах и иных знаках отличия медаль эта (должна подвешиваться) левее таковых, непосредственно вслед за жалуемыми правительством медалями».

Interesting that original regulation doesn't specify diameter of the medal (that's why we observe so many variants ).

Edited October 25, 2013 by JapanX

[paul wood]

Nick,

Having trouble with Google translator. Can you give a rough translation of the regulations, my Limited Russian is not up to it.

Paul

[paja]

Thank you very much Nick! You have answered all of my questions, and much more.

After the civil war many Russians came to Serbia so it's not that strange that things like this show up here from time to time.

I once watched a TV documentary about "our" Russians, there I heard that at that time every 10th resident of our capital was Russian. And they gave a big contribution to our country considering that a lot of them had higher education, professors, members of academy, architects... Not to mention the officers and members of the White Guard. My grandfather told me that when he was young a Russian colonel lived in the same building as he and he also had I think math teacher from Russia.

Edited October 25, 2013 by paja

[paul wood]

Radmilo,

Thank you for your interesting post I was unaware that Serbia had a large population of Russian emigres. Keep looking in the Belgrade markets you never know you might pick up something super rare.

Paul

[paja]

You are most welcome Paul. This subject was pretty interesting to me as well. Probably the most famous of them was Wrangel. According to his wishes he was buried in a small Russian church here in Belgrade. There is even his monument in Sremski Karlovci, a place where he had his headquarters for some time.

Regards,

Radmilo

[paul wood]

http://www.karlovci.org.rs/monuments3.html for an image of the monument

Paul

[paja]

Thanks for the interesting link Paul. I visited Sremski Karlovci couple of times and I was amazed by it's beauty.

Here's one more picture of the monument.

Edited October 25, 2013 by paja

[JapanX]

Can you give a rough translation of the regulations...

To whom

"...who served in their Offices [i.e. offices of Red Cross society], managed warehouses and worked in them; authorized agents... doctors, pharmacists, nurses, students ... medical assistants, orderlies, artel workers, hospital personnel, and those who served with different dressing wards, receptions, sanitaries, food and lodging stations, as well as those who helped with evacuation"

+

"the persons who made more or less significant substantive [this strange tautology is in original text ] offerings of money and goods, but also contributed to the obtaining of donations"

According to the original regulation medal should be worn

"...on the Alexander ribbon on the left chest whenever cavalier wish with every kind of clothing. With orders and other insignia this medal should be hanged to the left, right after government medals"

Edited October 25, 2013 by JapanX

[JapanX]

.. there I heard that at that time every 10th resident of our capital was Russian

According to 2002 census 40,5% of all russians in Serbia were living in Belgrade

[paul wood]

Thank you so much Nick.

Paul

[paja]

According to 2002 census 40,5% of all russians in Serbia were living in Belgrade

According to the information from that TV documentary Belgrade had around 200.000 inhabitants during '20s of which around 20.000 Russians

[JapanX]

Not bad!