lancers helmet

[blueman]

hoping its goodhttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-10499-0-75195400-1394281470.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-10499-0-02017400-1394281487.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-10499-0-47968600-1394281503.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-10499-0-66739600-1394281551.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-10499-0-10298200-1394281570.jpg

[Mervyn Mitton]

Blueman - looks to be a nice example - and the Victorian helmet plate to Queen Victoria looks sound.

I am attaching some pages from a History of the British Army Regts. - published in 1900. This will give

you the early history for the 16th. Lancers and their equipment at that time.

Value wise - I would think for o/r's - missing the feathers - about 1500 pounds upwards. Mervyn

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-6209-0-74821400-1394444193.jpgclick

[Mervyn Mitton]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-6209-0-13542000-1394444313.jpgclick

[Mervyn Mitton]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-6209-0-07826400-1394444446.jpgclick

[blueman]

thanks again mervyn

[pjac]

Sorry to disagree with Mervyn, but I wouldn't pay more than £600, if that , for a genuine one with plume. 16th Lancers seem to be relatively common. I think this probably OK , but the plate looks quite bright. I would ask if there are any issue stamps on the underside of the mortar board.

Patrick

[Mervyn Mitton]

Patrick - thankyou for your comments on price - you are more up to date on prices then I am. Mervyn

[pjac]

Prompted by comments from Stuart Bates (late of this parish) who had been asked for an opinion by a friend, I've now looked properly at this lance cap. Neither of us think it's the real thing. The plume boss is way too big , the colours don't look right and the material is wrong; the braid on the waist band is too new and on the verticals looks very new and is too flat; there should be a hook on the rear corner for the lines; the plate looks really shiny etc. I wouldn't touch it.

Patrick

[Mervyn Mitton]

I commented on our Overseas Police Forum , just yesterday, how difficult it is to make decisions on the authenticity

of items when only photos are available. GMIC provides the experts to help in these identifications - they know

the small things to look for. Members should therefore take advantage of this knowledge and post good photos

from all angles. With regard to this helmet the photos have been taken by the auction house and are not of good

quality. Yourself and Stuart are almost certainly right that it is a composite item - although from what I can see

of the Plate it looks original.

I think the lesson to be learnt is that try to get authentication on items by using the knowledge of our Members -

but, remember - quality of pictures is important and enough time must be allowed for the experts in the field you

are asking about , to come on-line and see the post. Thankyou pjac for taking the time to make a decision

on this helmet - and of course, thankyou Stuart. Mervyn

[Brian Wolfe]

I do wonder if this is a case where the helmet was "refitted" in order to use as a stage prop or as a cheaper alternative to an authentic piece used as a decorator item. It is frustrating when these reach an auction house and are released onto the collector market.

Well done pjak and Stuart.

Regards

Brian

[Chris Boonzaier]

I do wonder if this is a case where the helmet was "refitted" in order to use as a stage prop

Regards

Brian

Indeed... the yellow and red strap around the helmet looks like the white and red canvas strap we use to pull up our blinds...

[Stuart Bates]

I swore that I would never return to this forum, but time passes. Here is what I wrote to my friends on this item. And I am hoping that Blueman is really kevin1947 on other forums. And you still cannot spell Boer correctly!

In my opinion it is rubbish.

1. the braid to the four edges is new and should look like it has a seam down the middle because of the way it is braided. Could be modern bandsman's braid.
2. the waistband looks new, possibly also a modern bandsman's
3. the loop at the rear should be mounted on a four leaf base with a hook to take the cap lines and the chinchain when worn up
4. the plume boss has been made up - it is too large and the red is not the correct colour - to me it looks far too pink.
5. overall the condition of the trencher top is not that good and is skew-iff

Stuart

www.militarysunhelmets.com

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Stuart,

Good to see you on the forum.

Spelling? I messed up your first name but have now edited the error.

Welcome back.

Regards

Brian

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou for commenting Stuart. Despite the many problems you have pointed out , there has been nothing

detrimental to the plate - personally, I think it is an original - perhaps the only thing on the helmet that is ?

If any other members would like to add comments, please do so - although I think the two experts on helmets

have covered the many problems. Mervyn

[Trooper_D]

It looks like the czapka below is either from the same 'stable' or is blueman's helmet before restoration. 1600 x 1200 images are available here (click on 'Enlarge'),

http://www.rarusnet.com/product_info.php?products_id=12417

Note that the inside of the helmet, and the wire framework from which it is constructed, is visible in one of the images.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Trooper_D

[jonsey2001]

How common are these? If this one is put together I would really appreciate seeing one that isn't. Thank you for the history Mr. Mitton.

[pjac]

Hi Jonesy

Mine is in the thread named 'British helmets collection' on the second page of this section of the forum. I nought it at Bosley's a few years ago, and have seen several , apparently genuine, for sale since then. For those who are interested in helmets I've also bumped Stuart Bates's posts on his collection back to the top of this section as it would be a great shame if it got lost in the old posts. There's actually a 16th Lancers on the shelves in the overall photos of his collection.

Patrick

[jonsey2001]

Thank you Patrick. This is all new to me.

George

[lancer1856]

that's a very poor horrible copy of a fine bit of headgear

heres a few pics of my 16th it was in poor shape when I got it but its been cleaned up  had all the anti moth stuff put on given the one big clean and polish and now gets a wipe over once a year. Missing one corner flute

[peter monahan]

Lovely bit of work, that.

[lancer1856]

Thanks I know cleaning them is not to every ones taste but they do not stand the test of time well and need protecting. Also theres a lot of copies out there or doctored ones getting hard to find original stuff these days.l