Soviet HSU on auction in Vienna - starting bid USD 3.800,-

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

on 21st of November this year the auction house DOROTHEUM (the largest one on the continent) in Vienna will sell a Gold Star Medal of a Hero of the Soviet Union (no research, no documents). It is a medal with a rather low SN/no,: 1174.

Starting bid is USD 3.800,- / EUR 3.000,-

Have a look, here are 2 pics:

http://www.dorotheum.com/auktion-detail/auktion-10884-orden-und-auszeichnungen/lot-1789426-medaille-goldener-stern-held-der-sowjetunion.html?img=1

Fake or original?

Many thanks for your expertise!

Kind regards

Christian

[slava1stclass]

Herr Zulus,

Nice to hear from you again after so many years. I hope all is well with Gospodin Gnitienko.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited October 24, 2014 by slava1stclass

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Slava1stclass,

Sgt. Gnitienko's Glory-Trio is still the crown juwel in my Soviet awards collection. I have made an album on Facebook in commemoration of Gnitienko's deeds:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1262581717749.40030.1025906913&l=4f0e9af72d

Do you have any idea, if the HSU might be genuine?

According to the rather low SN/no.: 1174 it might be NOT one of the several thousends HSUs for Dnjepr-crossing.

Kind regards

Christian

[slava1stclass]

Dear Slava1stclass,

Sgt. Gnitienko's Glory-Trio is still the crown juwel in my Soviet awards collection. I have made an album on Facebook in commemoration of Gnitienko's deeds:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1262581717749.40030.1025906913&l=4f0e9af72d

Do you have any idea, if the HSU might be genuine?

According to the rather low SN/no.: 1174 it might be NOT one of the several thousends HSUs for Dnjepr-crossing.

Kind regards

Christian

Christian,

I'm happy to learn Sgt. Gnitienko remains in good hands! Unraveling the mystery behind his true OGI serial number was one of the more interesting research endeavors ever chronicled in GMIC's Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations sub-forum.

Unfortunately, I'm not qualified to comment on the authenticity of the HSU in question. That said, I'll offer one observation - the serial number stamp seems unusually deep.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Christian Zulus]

9420e7575a25bd598adc038a46065047

[JapanX]

... the serial number stamp seems unusually deep.

Yes, the serial number IS unusually deep :-(

Fascinating discussion

Just for fun

[paul wood]

I have only just looked at the post and I must admit I am not very happy with numbering on the back, it looks considerably cruder than that which one normally encounters and unless there is evidence of similarly stamped HSUs of around this number then I would to tend avoid like the plague.

Paul

[GHB]

First to the identity of Hero 1174. Grigori Kharlampievich Onishchenko (Junior Sgt. of the 886th Artillery Regiment, 322nd Rifle Division, 13th Army, Central front) was awarded Hero Star No. 1174 on 16 October 1943. and it appears it was for a Dnepr Crossing. Apparently 10 or more were awarded that day almost in number order according to Hero of the Soviet Union by Vorob'iev and Efimov. (About 10 more were awarded the next day as well again, almost in number order.)

About the medal hanging device: October 16 1943 seems late for early suspension although the book indicated that they were all (in that series) awarded that date. The nut also says Monetnii Dvor rather than Mondvor as on 985 badge as above.

The earliest 2nd type suspensions that I have seen were in the 1300 range, although I saw a 1400 range that was awarded in August 1943. But maybe that was a more active front.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear GHB,

many thanks for the identification!

So it is a part of the "HSU-Dnjepr-Inflation" ;-)

DOROTHEUM auction house indicated, that the hanging device might be a fake.

Dear Paul,

many thanks for your proposal!

Might it be possible to find stamped serial numbers of the range, GHB listed?

Kind regards

Christian

[Paul R]

Hi Christian! It is great to see you again. Is the starting price a fair one with the suspicions that are present?

[paul wood]

There is a problem free piece with (for what it is worth) a McDaniel Certificate in a certain London Auction of 26 November, Lot 334, estimated at a similar figure.

Paul

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Paul ®,

first of all happy birthday to you :-) and many thanks for your welcome!

Well, taking the information above by Paul Wood into account, the starting price of the HSU in Vienna doesn't look extremly fair ;-) To bid for the HSU in London might be a more save business.

Kind regards

Christian

[GHB]

To Christian Zulu: If you are in touch with Dorotheum ask them if they have the weight of the medal, less hanging device.

Early HSU (less than 6000 tend to weigh 20.0 +/- .5. I know they are not supposed to weigh "less than" 20.0 but I can only tell what I observe. I have, every chance I got, weighted actual hero stars, or alleged hero stars, and 95 percent of stars under 6000, do not weigh 21.5 g. (That other 5 percent I regrettably told the seller was not correct.) If the star weighs 21.5 g it is either fake or later issue. It cannot be later issue so that leaves one alternative. If you have contacts who can answer, ask the question I for one would like to know.

GHB

[paul wood]

Thanks for the information about weight, could be useful for future examples.

Paul

[GHB]

I checked the results of the auction and the Hero Star did not sell.

GHB

[paul wood]

I must confess I am not dumfounded with shock.

Paul

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

it seems, that there was really something wrong with this HSU

Many thanks GHB for your valid weight information

Kind regards

Christian