Swords were carried into battle in 1914!

[aussiesoldier]

Theses are a selection of the very few images of August - December, 1914 that show British and Empire officers carrying swords into battle in France.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou for those photos  -  clear evidence of swords.   They were certainly carried -and used- and were only gradually phased out.

However, that was for trench warfare  -  officers did carry swords in other theatres of operations.    Mervyn

[Brian Wolfe]

I suppose the military thinking of the time didn't rule out the sword as an effective weapon. 

Great photos, thanks for posting them.

 

Regards

Brian

[aussiesoldier]

“Mad Jack Churchill†carried a sword into battle in WW2!

 

Lieutenant Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming "Jack" Churchill, DSO & Bar, MC & Bar, nicknamed Fighting Jack Churchill and Mad Jack, was a British soldier who fought throughout the Second World War armed with a longbow, bagpipes, and a basket-hilted Scottish broadsword. He is known for the motto "any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed."

[peter monahan]

One squadron at least of an Indian cavalry regiment apparently took their lances into the trenches and allegedly used them.  I doubt the later but will have to locate the reference again and check.  This would have been early in 1914. 

[15THPACAV]

That first photo of Gordon Highlander officers, showing a date of August, 1914, cannot be correct; look at the bare trees & foliage in the background. Likely November-December, rather than late summer.

The photo of the mounted & dismounted Scottish Rifles officers is well known, and was ostensibly taken around the Battle of Le Cateau.

 

                                                                                                                                                                               BobS

[peter monahan]

I'm glad you said 'ostensibly'.  It is amazing what percentage of the WWI photos, especially early in the war, were staged, and often not even very convincingly, for propaganda purposes or because the photographer had a particular look or shot in mind.  It gets discouraging, when one is looking for evidence of a specific uniform piece or something, to discover how often the camera does in fact lie!

[jf42]

I dont feel the look on the Cameronian Colonel's  face could be faked.

[jocktamson]

I agree with jf42, the officers look to engrossed in conversation for the photo to be staged.

[peter monahan]

You may be correct, gents.    It was perhaps badly worded, as my comment was meant to be more a general observation than a critique of that photo in particular.  The word brought the thought to moind, and as the old sweats on the forum will tell you, I digress at the drop of a hat!

[Paul R]

Is there any evidence of the M1913 Patton Saber being worn/carried/used in the field during WW1 or later?

[aussiesoldier]

In my gallery I have a photo of the US 2nd Cavalry showing them sporting 'Patton' cavalry swords, with the caption

 

"Second Dragoons distinguished themselves. In April 1918, a scant three weeks after leaving the United States, the Second Cavalry found itself landed in France in the Toul sector. After being initially deployed to perform military police duties and to manage horse remount depots, the Regiment was the only American unit used as horse cavalry during the war. A provisional squadron formed by Troops B, D, F, and H was the last element of the Regiment ever to engage the enemy as mounted horse cavalry.

The final Allied offensive, the Meuse-Argonne campaign lasted from 26 September to 11 November 1918. The Second Cavalry was attached to the American 35th Division, playing an important role as the left flank element of eight divisions and later as the main effort between the Meuse River and the Argonne Forest. The men from the Regiment were commended for "...accomplishing their tasks with fearlessness, courage, and disregard for danger and hardship."

[Paul R]

Thank you very much!!!

[leigh kitchen]

Sword with leather covered scabbard for use in the field, but also the not so commonly seen leather covered guard.

King George V cypher on blade & also on the guard by the look of it - I wanted to check if the cyphrs on guard & blade matched or if the manufacturer had used an obsolete King Edward VII guard with the KG V blade as the guard wouldn't be seen).

 

' alt='' class='ipsImage' width="562px" height="750px">">

' alt='' class='ipsImage' width="562px" height="750px">

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Leigh,

Very intertesting sword.

What did you use to get the last photo was the sword guard X-rayed or some sort of Untra-sound used?

Regards

Brian

 

[leigh kitchen]

Hi. I managed to get it passed through an x-ray machine a few times & took photos of the screen with my phone - not good quality images, that's down to the phone.

[leigh kitchen]

That is "GR" rather than "ER" isn't it?

[Brian Wolfe]

It looks like ER to me.  I held up my Geo V specimen as a compairison against the x-ray of yours and noticed there seems to be neither a "V" or "VI" for one of the King Georges and there would appear to be an "E" in the scroll.  From the photo it looks like the King's crown which seems odd to me.  I hope others, perhaps with better eyesight, will comment.

 

Regards

Brian

[leigh kitchen]

I see the King's crown. I wondered about the 'ER' or 'GR' issue having taken a batch of photos. "Everyone" seems to go for 'GR' but I'm not sure one way or the other.

I think there's a 'V' or 'V*?'' in the centre of the cypher  perhaps more visible in other photos.

I it's 'ER' then either the manufacturer has used up an obsolete component knowing it won't be visiblevisible on a new sword. or the owner's replaced the blade because of damage? I don't think he'd replace it just to "change the kings". Then again how practical would it be to change the blade if the basket's fitted with the leather?

[Brian Wolfe]

Yes, I believe you are correct.  Upon checking ER is in printed form on any photos of the gurads and in script for the George series. I shuold have remembered that but like eye sight memory wanes with years as well.

Regards

Brian

 

[peter monahan]

That is a dandy sword indeed, leigh.  Thanks for sharing it - first I've seen that way.  Jolly clever, what?

 

[leigh kitchen]

It would be more clever  if I wasn't having doubts re. the cypher

[Mervyn Mitton]

Covering the Guard with leather was a means to stop reflections.   With the blade in such good condition and the G V R Cypher clear,  it would seem unlikely that it has been re-hilted.   I would say that you have a nice example of the 1st WW Infantry sword.

[leigh kitchen]

I was thinking more along the lines of the possibility of the sword being made with an obsolete King ERVII hilt & King GRV blade Merv. as the hilt would be permanently covered.

The covered hilt was presumably as a result of lessons learned in South Africa.

[peter monahan]

Aussiesoldie

There is a reference in a novel by W.E.B. Griffin to the fact that the US military, at the outbreak of WWII shipped out 5 or 10 thousand sabres for the 26th Cavalry [Phillipine Scouts].  They never got farther than Australia where, after the 26th ate their horses and went into Japanse captivity, they were ground down to make machetes.  Always meant to fllow that story up.  It's one of those that sounds too bizarre to have been made up!