Streptile Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Hello all, I am posting here today in the hopes that you can help me identify this man. As far as I can tell he is from a Saxon duchy (maybe Sachsen-Meiningen?). He saw service in 1866, 1870 and then again in 1914. His bar shows: 1870 EK2 / WHS / RAO4 / KO3 / DA / 1870 KDM / 1866 Kreuz / ZM I'm not sure what his topmost neck order is either. I have an idea but I will refrain from posting it so as to avoid influencing others' eyes. Looking forward to hearing your ideas. Thank you in advance for any help. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 He must be one of the Edler von Planitz Generals, perhaps Paul Edler von Planitz, Saxon war minister. But I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I am not a bar expert, but I am guessing, he has the 1870 bar, which means he maybe did not have a combat role in WW1 as most senior officers with an 1870EK 2 seem to have recieved an early 1914 EK1... then not getting a bar for the EK2. It can not be Paul EvP as he had an 1870 EK1. It is not General Horst Edler von der Planitz, Kommandant des XII. Armeekorps either as he had no 1870 EK2.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The medal bar is not unique enough to do an identification from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It actually looks like an older Don Frye playing a German officer.... http://whoatv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/don-frye.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm not a military expert. I just compare the images. Another try: Heinrich Leo von Treitschke https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Leo_von_Treitschke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Hi, similar, but has an 1870 EK1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 He seems to be one of the few, who got the Saxe Ernerstine House Order neck decoration with "Jahreszahlen"? So he could be found in Lundström/Krause by crosschecking the 33 recepients with the EK 1870. Regards, Komtur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thank you all for your posts. 29 minutes ago, Komtur said: Saxe Ernerstine House Order neck decoration with "Jahreszahlen" Hi Tilo, That is exactly what I thought I saw. Does Daniel still post on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Last try. What about him? Max von Bock und Polach. He has the grand cross of the Saxe Ernestine House Order and the 1870 EK II. But he ist a Prussian field marshal. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_von_Bock_und_Polach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Chaps, my money is on Oberstleutnant a.D. Otto von Borcke, a retired Landgendarmerie officer commanding the I. Ersatz-Bataillon of Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 95 in Gotha during the War. Awarded his EK2 as a Sekonde-Lieutenant in Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 6. Holder of the HSH2 with the "Jahreszahl" 1914 plus everything else in this photograph. Regards Glenn P.S. That appears to FRIEDRICH von Bock und Polach and not Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 9 minutes ago, Glenn J said: ,,, Otto von Borcke ... Could this be him in his younger age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 57 minutes ago, Komtur said: Could this be him in his younger age? The form of his left ear seems to match, it has a pretty unusual shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks again for the replies. von Borcke, huh? Most Americans know this name because of the famous Heros von Borcke (born 1835, German bio here), Lieutenant Colonel of the CSA (Confederate States of America) during the Civil War. Could Heros be the father of Otto? Edited December 4, 2015 by Streptile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Otto Philipp is a younger brother of Heros. http://www.schlossarchiv.de/TNG//getperson.php?personID=I805531B&tree=tree1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Just now, Hermann said: Otto Philipp is a younger brother of Heros Hermann, different Otto: he died in 1890! Oberstleutnant Karl Otto v. Borcke died in 1917 (5.5.1847-28.2.1917). Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermann Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 On the von Borcke family tree you will find Karl Otto Gotthard von Borcke (1847-1917). http://www.borcke.com/upload/dokumente/Stammtafel_Gesamt_05_06_04.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thank you Hermann. Very interesting. 4 hours ago, Komtur said: Could this be him in his younger age? Hi Tilo, I see the photo is labeled "von Borcke" but do you know if this is Karl Otto Gotthard von Borcke (1847 - 1917)? Or do you just know the last name? Thank you for any clarification. Edited December 4, 2015 by Streptile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skarp Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 3 hours ago, Streptile said: Thoughts? Both are male, both presumably German... There are no other points of similarity. Nose, brows, ears, chin, eys, all different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share Posted December 5, 2015 6 hours ago, Skarp said: Nose, brows, ears, chin, eys, all different I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Unfortunately I have only the last name on this portrait in my archive. In direct comporison it seems not to be him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Thank you Tilo. I will update this post with any new information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streptile Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Well, I can confirm that the man in the photo is Karl Otto Gotthard von Borcke. When I bought this photo, I thought I knew who owned the bar. A local collector, older and totally offline, owns a bar with the same combination of awards as the one shown in the photo. However, upon close inspection this past weekend, I can see that the bar is not the same one shown in the photo. It is very close, but the local bar has three (not four) Gefechtsspangen. That said, I did manage to locate a photo of von Borcke's bar, shown below. The story I have been told (by a member of another forum) is that the bar shown above was sold by Detlev Niemann attributed to a man with the name "von Borcke." (Turns out the bar was stolen and the buyer returned it to Niemann, who returned it to the original owner, who still has it, but that's immaterial.) You can see that Borcke eventually mounted his Sachsen-Meiningen award. But the rest of the bar clearly matches the photo. Now I will see if I can buy the local 7-place bar with three Gefechtsspangen, which still needs a name. Stay tuned. PS: If you own von Borcke's bar, or know who does, please contact me! Edited March 30, 2016 by Streptile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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