Whatever could this badge be?

[Mandilini]

I am trying so hard to find out what happened to my Great Grandfather, Harry Fraser. It is not a rare name so it is not proving an easy task. I know that he was married in 1919 and divorced in 1927. He was down as being a soldier and an actor. One of the marriage witnesses was a Sgt WD (or DW) Botting of the RGA. I therefore wondered if Harry was in the RGA too. Then a very kind person pointed out that on our only photo of Harry he looks like he is wearing a military badge and wondered if it was a RGA one. I know it is extremely blurred but if you bring it up close you can see that it is a circle, seems to be a crown at the top. Not sure of the bit beneath but when I see it against other badges I can at least see that it isn't matching any I'm looking at. But I don't know if there is a chart of these kind of badges that I could look through. I can't find one. So I then wondered if anyone with an interest in these things might be able to recognise it or at least something about it that could help?  It would be hugely appreciated.  

[Jerry B]

perhaps showing just the blown up badge might help us help you?

[QSAMIKE]

With the mans name, the dress, the shape of the badge I think that it may be a Clan Badge of the Frasers.......  It is definitely not military.....

Mike

 

 

 

[Mandilini]

Thank you for the fast reply. I have tried to do isolate the badge. It still isn't very clear. I have been looking at badges for hours today and I think it coud be the silver war badge.  Taking into account the angle and unclear photo. It looks like a crown at the top and although all the spaces can't be seen in the letters it is still tying in with the gaps around the edge. I can't find anything else like it. If these were meant to be worn on civilian clothes (according to wiki :D) then that explains why it is on this gear and also why there is a newspaper article showing him to be acting in a play in 1917. If he was injured and no longer in the war he would be available for acting. What do you think? Do you think that is what this badge could be?

[Mandilini]

On 06/01/2017 at 19:16, QSAMIKE said:

With the mans name, the dress, the shape of the badge I think that it may be a Clan Badge of the Frasers.......  It is definitely not military.....

Mike

 

 

 

ooh that is a very similar shape to the silver war badge when blurred out!!  I would never have thought of that. Thank you. The fraser badge that says "all my hope is in God" has the same shaping and gap shapes that I can see in the photo. I bet that is what it is!  Thank you very much.

[Mandilini]

Oh now I don't know again. I stare at it and it still seems more like the silver war badge. I realise it is far too blurred to make any letters out but it doesn't look entirely symmetrical and the gaps that are possible to make out are in line with the war badge. There seems to be a lot more space around the clan badge which I think would be noticeable even on such a blurry picture.  

There are some Harry Frasers that have been listed as receiving this badge. I don't know if it can lead me anywhere but I may have to check them out as they did have identifiable numbers on them. I was told by a very elderly relative that although she didn't know him she felt sure she had heard that his parents lived in London. If he was born in London it may be something to help narrow down the search. I just want to know what happened to him and who was sad when he died. I can't find anyone else researching him and I don't like to think that he just disappeared and no one cared.  If he remarried I may have relatives that would be able to help me find out about him. If this badge can't help then at least it is an avenue I have tried. I hope my question hasn't come across as silly.

[Jerry B]

I also think it does bear a striking resemblance to the silver war badge.

 

 

[Michael Johnson]

About twenty years ago I was in a shopping mall in Toronto, and there was an elderly gentleman sitting on a bench with a SWB on his blazer lapel.

Michael

[coldstream]

The Silver War Badge records show one Harry Fraser with the Rank of Driver in the 15 Reserve Battery, Royal Field Artillery with Regimental number 58897. He is shown as enlisting on 04/1/15 and date of discharge as 24/7/15 being issued Badge Number B2699. Reason for discharge given as 'Sickness, permanently unfit for any form of military service.' He is also shown as aged 35.

Could be your Man, I'll see what else I can find on him.

Regards Simon

[Mandilini]

On 10/01/2017 at 11:57, Jerry B said:

11 hours ago, coldstream said:

The Silver War Badge records show one Harry Fraser with the Rank of Driver in the 15 Reserve Battery, Royal Field Artillery with Regimental number 58897. He is shown as enlisting on 04/1/15 and date of discharge as 24/7/15 being issued Badge Number B2699. Reason for discharge given as 'Sickness, permanently unfit for any form of military service.' He is also shown as aged 35.

Could be your Man, I'll see what else I can find on him.

Regards Simon

Wow thank you! How on earth did you find that? Oh wait...this must be a different Harry Fraser. My great granddad would have been approx 23 /24 yrs old. He was married in Jan 1919 and it said he was age 26. He was likely to have turned 26 the year before which would make him an 1892 baby. His father was also called Harry Fraser but he would have also been the wrong age for that badge. But the place you found that info...were there more Harry Frasers? You could be right about the royal artillery because a witness at his wedding was a sgt W.D. Botting..it said he was in the RGA.  I wondered if that was where they became mates? So my great granddad could have been in a similar regiment...or associated one? (I don't know much about how all that works I'm afraid.)

I am so grateful for your kind help. I hope there are more candidates on that list. He was married in Willesden so I would assume he was from somewhere London-ish?

My most grateful thanks 

Mandy

Oh now I don't know again. I stare at it and it still seems more like the silver war badge. I realise it is far too blurred to make any letters out but it doesn't look entirely symmetrical and the gaps that are possible to make out are in line with the war badge. There seems to be a lot more space around the clan badge which I think would be noticeable even on such a blurry picture.  

There are some Harry Frasers that have been listed as receiving this badge. I don't know if it can lead me anywhere but I may have to check them out as they did have identifiable numbers on them. I was told by a very elderly relative that although she didn't know him she felt sure she had heard that his parents lived in London. If he was born in London it may be something to help narrow down the search. I just want to know what happened to him and who was sad when he died. I can't find anyone else researching him and I don't like to think that he just disappeared and no one cared.  If he remarried I may have relatives that would be able to help me find out about him. If this badge can't help then at least it is an avenue I have tried. I hope my question hasn't come across as silly.

[Mandilini]

I think I am writing my replies in the wrong place?  If I click on "quote" to try to answer that person it seems to do bizarre things to my reply.  I hope my replies are still showing to the lovely people who have been kindly commenting and encouraging me. x

[Spasm]

Played around a bit with your picture and blurred up a silver war badge. The negative areas are very similar, so I'd go with Simon's details.

[Egorka]

I think this is badge is different to British WW1 wound badge. I think the proportions are off. The design is very similar though...

In my analysis I assume almost no distortion on the British wound badge picture (very very small in both horizontal and vertical planes).

I the mystery badge photograph some distortion is present, but I assume it is very minimal in the vertical plane.

What do you think? IMHO, the difference in ratios I got, cannot be explained by the the distortion due to projection and blurriness.....

 

[Mandilini]

This is fantastic!  You are all helping me so much and it feels like we are slowly getting there. Yes it does have a great similarity to the silver wound badge...but although it is on an angle which need to be taken into account there are still perceivable differences when blown right up like this. What a great idea to do the measuring comparison. Also now looking at it as big as that don't you think the edge also looks different too?  Like rope even?  Could it be some kind of navy badge?...something to do with the sea? I know we can do this!  x

[Mandilini]

On 10/01/2017 at 13:32, Michael Johnson said:

About twenty years ago I was in a shopping mall in Toronto, and there was an elderly gentleman sitting on a bench with a SWB on his blazer lapel.

Michael

That is really sweet and kind of sad too. Poor old chap. x

[Mandilini]

I just saw a photo that showed a badge at different blurs. It does change how gaps and thickness appear. I know it isn't the same as the one I am asking about (above) but it shows how it alters the appearance. It is still possible to make some things out though. Eg when the member Egorka brought my great granddad's badge up really close I could see that it wasn't smooth round but seems to have something uniform at the top at least...e.g. maybe leaves around the edge or rope ...something with pattern. Not sure if that goes all the way round but the edge does seem to be bumpy.  I can see what looks like a small chain looping at the bottom of it but not a clan badge bottom piece so I don't think it can be that type of badge. If we could work out what badge he is wearing I may be able to find out which Harry Fraser he is and what happened to him. I kind of don't want him to have died with no one to care.  No one is researching him other than me, because if they were their research would also bring up my great grandmother and no one else's family trees are. I have tried setting up different trees to attack it from different angles but never does his name bring up anything other than having married Martha Hilda Woods, my great grandmother.  I only found out about my relatives on my mum's side in 1999 which was just a little too late to ask questions. So I am having to work really hard at finding out.

Anyway..here is the photo of a different badge at different stages of blur. It isn't the one we want but it just shows that blurring is making a difference to be aware of....(please remember this is not a picture of my great granddad's badge...just an example of the effect of blurring.)  x