Char. Vizeadmiral Karl Bartenbach Unknown Badge Award

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

What is this award?
Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1. Klasse or Mecklenburg-Schwerin Militärverdienstkreuz 1. Klasse? Or something else?

Thanks!

[webr55]

To me, this looks like one of the unofficial 1920s awards. Could be the pinback cross of Frontkriegerbund or Kriegserinnerungszeichen. Of course, these were banned in wear in the Kriegsmarine, but maybe the Admiral (picture must be from 1938/39) didn't care. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by webr55

[laurentius]

Dear fellow collectors

To me the award looked a bit like the Steckkreuz für Treue Dienste from Schaumburg-lippe, the cross 1st class. The arms seem less wide than those of the Iron cross, and we see a small emblem in the center of the cross, which could very well be the capital 'A' on the cross. I will attach some pictures.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

 

Dear fellow collectors

To me the award looked a bit like the Steckkreuz für Treue Dienste from Schaumburg-lippe, the cross 1st class. The arms seem less wide than those of the Iron cross, and we see a small emblem in the center of the cross, which could very well be the capital 'A' on the cross. I will attach some pictures.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Thank you for your answers guys. What about the Fürstl. Lippisches Kriegsehrenkreuz für Heldenmütige Tat?

The thing is, on the photo of Bartenbach I can't see the Laurel wreath (Lorbeerkranz) that is on the Lippe award?

[webr55]

You’re right, I can’t see the laurel wreath either. And the shape doesn’t match the Schaumburg. 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

So, do we all agree it is most likely that the award is the Steckkreuz für Treue Dienste 1st Class from Schaumburg-Lippe?

Or... ?

[webr55]

No. As I said, the shape does not match. I still think I was right: This is one of the unofficial 1920s pinback crosses, see above. 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

 

No. As I said, the shape does not match. I still think I was right: This is one of the unofficial 1920s pinback crosses, see above. 

Yes, I saw your post, and I do agree with you. It could be one of the unofficial awards.

But you didn't say, is Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1. Klasse out of the question or also possible? The shape looks similar to me.

When I was trying to ID Bartenbach's medal bar, on another forum a memeber said one of the medals is the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse. We can't confirm it with the Rangliste because Bartenbach retired in 1920 and wasn't active again until 1934.

So if he recieved the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse it is also quite possible he recieved the 1.Klasse.

The 6th medal was identified as the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse.

After Oldenburg Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse (partly covered by it) and before Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Kriegsmarine Admiral

[webr55]

Hard to tell. We need a better scan. 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

 

Hard to tell. We need a better scan. 

Unfortunately this is the best scan we have...

[tompress]

 

Dear fellow collectors

To me the award looked a bit like the Steckkreuz für Treue Dienste from Schaumburg-lippe, the cross 1st class. The arms seem less wide than those of the Iron cross, and we see a small emblem in the center of the cross, which could very well be the capital 'A' on the cross. I will attach some pictures.

Kind regards, Laurentius

 

Sorry, but this is not possible. The Schaumburg-Lippe cross od 1st class was only awarded to princely persons (36 pieces awarded). The Braunschweig cross 1st class is most likely here (in my opinion )

[webr55]

Again: I believe this is not the Braunschweig KVK1, for two reasons:

- The shape of the arms of the Braunschweig KVK1 does not match.

- The Braunschweig KVK1 is smaller than the EK1, while Bartenbach's award is the same size as the EK.

See the picture below of both awards in wear for comparison.

[laurentius]

dear Webr55

The Brunswick Ernst-August cross 1st class is 41 MM whilst the EK1 is around 42 MM (sizes may differ a bit per maker). So the KVK1 and the EK1 are roughly the same size. It is the cross 2nd class that is 30 MM, the one you are probably thinking of.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[webr55]

Well. Please look at the picture above and compare. 

[laurentius]

Dear Webr55

I looked at it and I put a ruler against my screen to measure them, the EK1 and the KVK1 are roughly the same size

Kind regards, laurentius

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

 

Dear Webr55

I looked at it and I put a ruler against my screen to measure them, the EK1 and the KVK1 are roughly the same size

Kind regards, laurentius

Hello laurentius,

do you then think Bartenbach is wearing the Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1. Klasse?

[laurentius]

Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral

I don't know what it is, it could be a Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreus 1. Klasse. I only meant to say that the argument that there is a size-difference is wrong. I think we need better pictures before we can make a proper judgement.

Kind regards, Laurentius

Edited May 1, 2018 by laurentius