Bits and pieces, helmets and jackets....

[Chris Boonzaier]

It was comman practice to remove the spike from the spiked helmet when going into combat in wooded areas (for example)..... how many were captured like this... a "legit" way of wearing them....

Raiding parties would remove their shoulder boards.... what did they do when they had sewn in ones?

Did the Bavarian M15 (16?) jackets have a collar in the same color green as the rest of the jacket... or do all collars have a different color green?

anyone have any good photos of the water containers used to bring water to the front lines?

All these questions and more.... watch this space...

[Guest Rick Research]

"Did the Bavarian M15 (16?) jackets have a collar in the same color green as the rest of the jacket... or do all collars have a different color green?

anyone have any good photos of the water containers used to bring water to the front lines?"

Ooo! Ooo! Pick me! pick me!!!

[attachmentid=34996]

[attachmentid=34997]

There was also the Wunderwaffe to get hot food to the front quickly: shootring it out by the form of mortar known as the "Gulaschkanone"--

[attachmentid=34998]

[joe campbell]

alternatively, if one were to place the cuisine

on the end of the splitting mall and have, say,

fat fritz jump on the other end, a quieter food

delivery could be achieved....

nice pix, rick!

joe

[Chris Boonzaier]

The top one is pretty much the tunic I have been offered. high field grey collar, hidden buttons, added pockets.... only thing is, no shoulder boards and nothing on the collar...

Would EUR650 more or less be okay if it had a few moth holes?

The water carrier I am looking for is in the form of a backpack, although Ricks are a good start .

[Chip]

Chris,

The Bavarian M16 Bluse had a collar that was the same feldgrau wool as the rest of the tunic. Starting in October 1916 issued pieces had the Bavarian Kennzeichenborte completely around the low edge of the collar. By December of 1917 this braid was reduced to just a short strip on the front vertical part of the collar. By war's end, this braid was often missing altogether.

Regarding the removal of shoulder straps for raids, I would think it would be fairly easy for most officers had removable boards. The only straps that were routinely sewn into the shoulder seam, were Bavarian straps. You often see M1916 Bavarian straps with unfinish ends (not sewn shut acrosss the bottom edge), as they were just going to be hidden inside the seam anyway. I don't see how these straps could be easily removed and put back into place. All other post-1914 made enlisted straps were top stitched on, so they could easily be removed, but would have had to be reattached later. A little more work, but you do as you are told.

Other than the aforementioned Bavarian straps, you also encounter shoulder straps sewn into the shoulder seam on custom purchase tunics or issue tunics that have been altered due to a soldier being promoted. Often these "improved" issue tunics are set back for off duty wear and thus the removal of straps is not necessary.

Our national WWI museum in Kansas City has a mint condition field water carrier. It was part of the large cache of captured war material that was split amongst the states according to the percent of troops that it contributed to the war effort. The state was offered a large list to choose from. The stuff on it is amazing. Compared to what it could have taken, the state of Missouri took only a moderate amount of things.

The water carrier is painted feldgrau and has shoulder straps made from papercloth, so it can be carried on the back, like a pack. You can see it here in a display at the museum from 1978.

Chip

[attachmentid=35002]

Edited April 16, 2006 by Chip

[Tom Y]

Not what you're looking for, but another type of water carrier, this one soft, probably 2 gal. capacity. I imagine for horses or maybe MG's

[Chris Boonzaier]

Our national WWI museum in Kansas City has a mint condition field water carrier. It was part of the large cache of captured war material that was split amongst the states according to the percent of troops that it contributed to the war effort. The state was offered a large list to choose from. The stuff on it is amazing. Compared to what it could have taken, the state of Missouri took only a moderate amount of things.

The water carrier is painted feldgrau and has shoulder straps made from papercloth, so it can be carried on the back, like a pack. You can see it here in a display at the museum from 1978.

Chip

[attachmentid=35002]

I would like to get one for my MG display, i assume they were used for them as well.

In verdun I have seen 4-5, but alwaystotally destroyed.

[Chip]

Chris,

Other than this one, here at the national WWI museum, I have never seen other either.

Chip

[Daniel Murphy]

Chris,

Here is a better photo. I do not believe these were used for carrying water for the MGs, mainly they were used for carrying soup and potable water to the troops in the front line. I do know that when a 08 Maxim crew went to the front lines they carried 12,000 rounds of ammo, 15 belts in cans. They would also have a number of the water cans (either 1908 round or 1915 type) for the gun. The water jacket had to be refilled after every 1000 rounds. The cans were non recycling and the water had to be poured back into the water jacket from the spout on the water can. The end of the steam hose would be placed into some water that was left in the can. As the steam from the hose hit the water it was converted back into water again, so the water could be used over and over again. Of course a small amount of water (as steam)may be lost around the front and rear water seals (around the barrel), so you would slowly run lower and lower on your water supply. Since potable water was rare, the crew often collected additional water from wherever they could, often from shell holes. This would keep the gun firing, but would require a more intense cleaning after use since the water could have been contaminated by gas which was corrosive.

Dan

Edited November 25, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Dan,

A nice container, but the one I am on about is just a thin tin one with shoulder loops, about 18 inchas by 18 inches, slightly kidney shaped with a round screw top on the top right hand side..

I wish I could find a photo of one...

[Chip]

Chris,

Are you talking about the one in the museum photo above? It is flat where it faces the carrier's back and rounded on the other side. It also has a round screw cap on the top. The new museum opens next week http://www.libertymemorialmuseum.org/ and I will ask the curator if I can photograph the water carrier for you, if you like.

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Chris,

Are you talking about the one in the museum photo above? It is flat where it faces the carrier's back and rounded on the other side. It also has a round screw cap on the top. The new museum opens next week http://www.libertymemorialmuseum.org/ and I will ask the curator if I can photograph the water carrier for you, if you like.

Chip

Indeed it is... a kinda kidney shape...

[JensF.]

I think you mean this one. It was used for water for the MGs.

[peter monahan]

Not what you're looking for, but another type of water carrier, this one soft, probably 2 gal. capacity. I imagine for horses or maybe MG's

Tom

I own several of these. We bought them when I began re-enacting War of 1812 because the correct buckets - wooden - are $80.00 and a six month wait. The neat thing is that they hold water and stand up when wet but collapse when dry. There is a camping version - Chinese I think - with a palstic rim on the ottom and no wood stiffener in the handle which DON'T hold water - cotton too thin.

Anyway, these buckets - the ones you've pictured - are modern German or swedish army issue: weigh nothing, hold water. Not nearly WWI though. Sorry!

Peter

[Chip]

Peter,

I can't speak with any certainty about Tom's canvas water carrier, but I can tell you that nearly every WWI army had them. The French issued them as a squad item and the German cavalry issued them to every trooper. I have two German examples, both with maker/issue markings.

Chip