Difference between BMVO3x and BMVO4x

[laurentius]

Dear fellow collectors,

I recently read in an old thread somewhere that most pieces on the market today that are sold as BMVO3x are actually BMVO4x's that have been gilded at a later stage. However, original BMVO3x pieces can be recognized because the flames are attached separately, whereas they are cast with the BMVO4x. Would there be any collectors out there with detailed pictures that would clearly show the difference? I would also be interested in any other pictures, regarding the production of these orders. After researching online I did come across several pictures of Prussian decorations being made (e.g. Iron Crosses), sadly I wasn't able to find anything on the manufacture of Bavarian awards, like the BMVO.

Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

[graham]

laurentius,

This might be of some help: -

 

[laurentius]

Dear Graham

I have read the thread several times when I was at doubt with Bavarian decorations. It is a splendid thread, discussing the orders and crosses, but also mountingstyles and preventing damage. Although several BMVO3x are shown there, I am not able to distinguish the separately applied flames. That's why I asked if there is someone with detailed pictures to help me.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[spolei]

I have a picture, but I can not share it. So I tried to paint the system of attachment. The flames were put through the medallion ring and pinned inside. The flames are worked hollow inside, therefore the crosses of the third classes are lighter.

Edited September 6, 2019 by spolei

[VtwinVince]

There was, I believe, only one manufacturer of the third class, and the flames were separately attached.

[graham]

laurentius,

I hope this what you are looking for, I have circled a few of the areas of interest:

This is what I first thought to be a 'BMVO3X'!!! but as you can see it is actually is a BMVO4X that has been gold plated. The flames are cast as part of the Order.

 

This is a BVMO3X which has gaps between the cross arms and the flames:

https://woeschler-orden.de/node/4000

VtwinVince,

I have seen both Jakob Leser and Gebrüder Hemmerle BVMO3X's. Not sure if there were any other manufacturers.

[spolei]

2 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

There was, I believe, only one manufacturer of the third class, and the flames were separately attached.

There are third classes of Hemmerle and Leser, two manufacturer.
Weiss has not delivered any third classes to the bavarian "Ordenskanzlei".

2 hours ago, graham said:

laurentius,

I hope this what you are looking for, I have circled a few of the areas of interest:

This is what I first thought to be a 'BMVO3X'!!! but as you can see it is actually is a BMVO4X that has been gold plated. The flames are cast as part of the Order.

 

This is a BVMO3X which has gaps between the cross arms and the flames:

https://woeschler-orden.de/node/4000

VtwinVince,

I have seen both Jakob Leser and Gebrüder Hemmerle BVMO3X's. Not sure if there were any other manufacturers.

Thats right and the weight of the 3. class is lighter. Thats a often seen fake. For a counterfeiter an easy game with a high profit.

 

[Komtur]

Bayern Militär-Verdienstorden 3. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern:

5. Januar 1918 Generalarzt Dr. Brecht, III. Armeekorps

[laurentius]

Thanks everyone for your help, this has been a very helpful thread.

If I understand Andreas correctly, the flames are attached separately in the same manner swords are? Are they screwed in, or attached in a different manner?

Kind regards, and thanks in advance, Laurentius