Belgium Belgium Croix de Guerre

[love4history]

Well actually I have been told in the past that these are two different colourtypes of ribbon. One being a later version then the other. But don't have more details. Maybe Hendrik knows more?

[Hendrik]

these are two different colour types of ribbon. One being a later version then the other.

You're probably thinking of the two ribbons that go for the 1940 Croix de Guerre : one is a pinkish red, the other a darker red. The light coloured one is supposed to be the early ribbon and its corresponding palm(s), if any, should then be of the "LIIIL" type (with the last L inverted). The darker ribbon signifies a later award for either WW2 or the Korean War and its palm(s) bear only one letter "L".

With regards to the colour difference in the WWI CdG ribbons, I'd say that's probably due to various manufacturers producing it at the time.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Tim B]

Thought I would bring this old thread out and dust it off with a couple of updates. Hopefully there are more with recent CdG's to post!

Tim

Here's an old one I had with a single Albert palm. Ribbon is faded, but the green stripes are almost a golden olive in color.

Tim

[Tim B]

And a more recent acquisition:

I assume the difference in Lion device styles is again something related to different manufacturers and not any timeline per-se. I also see some of these on singles and in groups shown on Bill Simpson's site under the "Great War" section.

The ribbon in this case is a salmon pink color with stripes almost more yellow than anything else. It is faded, but even on the reverse, the coloration is pretty much the same.

I also posted this item in the restoration section as the ribbon had been glued to a display board at some point and I had to remove the cardboard paper and glue.

Think it turned out okay IMO.

Tim

[Tim B]

Here's an interesting observation that might tie in to what Guy noticed with the Military Decorations; note the crown style differences and most notably, the difference in the "A".

Tim

[RobW]

QUOTE(love4history @ Jun 11 2007, 13:52 ) ←

You're probably thinking of the two ribbons that go for the 1940 Croix de Guerre : one is a pinkish red, the other a darker red. The light coloured one is supposed to be the early ribbon and its corresponding palm(s), if any, should then be of the "LIIIL" type (with the last L inverted). The darker ribbon signifies a later award for either WW2 or the Korean War and its palm(s) bear only one letter "L".

Cheers,

Hendrik

To all,

Here is my single contribution.

It is a little different to that posted by Jacky (# 40) in that the ribbon colours are a bit more muted in a pinkish red, with the green stripes particularly dark. A check of the ribbon on the inside and back shows that the front hadn't faded that much. The palm is of the earlier type with the inverted 'L's.

Regards,

Rob

[TacHel]

Well this is weird...

I just noticed the chiffre on my CDG's palm is different with a single "L". Can somebody explain this to me please?

[Tim B]

Hi Frank!

From Hendrik's site: At first this palm bore the royal monogramme consisting of 2 letters "L", the last one mirrored on the first one, with "III" in between them (Leopold III). On 26 November 1952 this was changed into a single letter "L".

So, perhaps the palm was awarded or added later.

Tim :cheers:

Edited January 21, 2010 by Tim B

[TacHel]

Thanks for that explanation! Much appreciated.:cheers:

[PKeating]

Thanks to our Belgian comrade Roel, I was able to add this to my Resistance collection: an attributed WW2 CdG with Palm, in this case the single "L" pattern, awarded to a member of the Service de renseignement et d'action (SRA). The Order of Leopold also bears a single "L" Palm. The designation SRA covered a range of Belgian Resistance units and sub-units involved in intelligence-gathering, whose members were either inserted into Belgium by British organisations like the SOE or recruited in Belgium itself. The 1939-1945 War Medal bears the “Service of Information” device on its riband. The recipient was from Kontich, just south of Antwerp. He also spent time in a concentration camp after deportation, as well as receiving the French Resistance Medal. He survived the war, as the bronze non-portable medal shows.

Edited January 23, 2010 by PKeating

[Tim B]

Very nice Prosper! Always nice to have some history behind the item.

Nothing as nice here; another example of the WW1 CdG. I suspected this one might actually be a more modern strike (50's-60's) probably for a veteran's replacement piece. Confirmed with Hendrik and Bjorn that my suspicions were correct. Still, nice and posted here for example purposes. Note the pattern on the cross arms.

Tim

[Gunner 1]

A British group to Brig.-Gen. G. C. Pritchard (late RA) with a World War I Belgian Croix de Guerre.

[Gunner 1]

And General Pritchard's miniature group.

[Gunner 1]

General Pritchard wearing his group.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Gunner 1

[PKeating]

Lovely group, Gunner. I like the miniatures too. Is the CdG British-made or did the Belgians' miniatures correspond in dimensions with their British counterparts?

[PKeating]

Very nice Prosper! Always nice to have some history behind the item.

Nothing as nice here; another example of the WW1 CdG. I suspected this one might actually be a more modern strike (50's-60's) probably for a veteran's replacement piece. Confirmed with Hendrik and Bjorn that my suspicions were correct. Still, nice and posted here for example purposes. Note the pattern on the cross arms.

Tim

I would concur, Tim. But it is still a perfectly genuine piece, just like the wonderful 1954 pattern cross shown earlier. Like other European nations, the Belgians view the award document as the important bit, the medal merely being an outward indication of possession of the document. From a collector's viewpoint, it is nice to have medals clearly dating from the period but, sadly, as in France, the documents are so often thrown out by families or pickers clearing a house or flat out because they fail to appreciate their importance, believing instead that the medals must be very valuable, which is why we see so many "orphan" Belgian and French medals in flea markets and antique shops with no documentation relating to the recipient.

PK

[RobW]

To all,

Here is one of my favourite Belgian groups, with a CdG and palm. This has previously been posted under the Belgian victory medal post as I'm primarily a victory medal collector.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

Further to a number of earlier posts here are two of my Belgian Croix de Guerre (1940) that appear to be different in a number of areas. Notwithstanding the different ribbons and palms, I believe the differences are:

* the crown on the model on the right appears to be much wider than that on the left.

* numerous smaller differences in cut-outs on the top of the crown as well as differences in the jewels on the base.

* a smaller gap on the suspender on the top arm.

* larger balls on the ends of the arms on the model on the right.

* thicker hilts and details on the swords.

* differences in the royal monogram as well as the circle and ring on the reverse.

While it is not immediately noticeable the model on the left has a flat base metal while the model on the right has a slightly dimpled effect on the arms.

I am leaning toward the belief that the model on the left is an earlier WW2 production while the model on the right is of a later production.

I would appreciate any thoughts from those with more experience than I.

Pics of the reverse to follow.

Regards,

Rob

Edited February 22, 2010 by RobW

[RobW]

And the reverses.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

Here is a close-up of the obverses of the cross'. It clearly shows the differences in the detail of the crowns.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Thought I would bump this one back up with a ribbon bar for a change of pace.

Tim

[Herman]

I don't know if this is allowed, but this one is for sale on the Dutch internetsite www.marktplaats.nl.

Type in the word medaille and it will show in the list.

I thought it is an awesome collection on the ribbon.

BTW: I am not the seller.

[Tim B]

Definately sharp looking if legit. I haven't seen many Belgian CdG with multiple ribbon devices for sale. Not as often as the French ones at least.

Here was a beautiful medal group that sold a few months back for $862. Off topic a bit here, but it does have a CdG.

Tim

Beautiful!! :love:

[Hendrik]

Seriously off-topic I'd say : it's a French group ! Nothing Belgian about it and the Croix de Guerre is the French one for Foreign Theatres of Operations. Also note only the 4 silver bars belong to the Maroc 1911 medal (3rd one left to right), the gilded ones shouldn't be on there at all as they most likely would go with the Colonial Medal. Don't know the last medal in the row but hopefully for the buyer it warrants the expense ...

[Tim B]

Seriously off-topic I'd say : it's a French group ! Nothing Belgian about it and the Croix de Guerre is the French one for Foreign Theatres of Operations. Also note only the 4 silver bars belong to the Maroc 1911 medal (3rd one left to right), the gilded ones shouldn't be on there at all as they most likely would go with the Colonial Medal. Don't know the last medal in the row but hopefully for the buyer it warrants the expense ...

Yes, understand it's French TOE. Interesting that the bars are on the wrong ribbon. I had asked about this one sometime back but no comments, maybe now we know why. ;)