Alex K Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Hi all, attached is a picture (Wiki) of the above gentleman with a VC and a lot of other medals! The uniform is unknown to me, I assume its the usual red, black/gold collar and gold embroidery to the front, that being assumed, is it regiment specific. All answers appreciated regards Alex K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 A lack of specific knowledge has never prevented me from diving in, so here goes. I question whether this is a regimental uniform. Reasons: 1. The shoulder cords don't appear to have any rank insignia. Perhaps he's wearing rank on his sleeves as during the early part of WW I? 2. The collar and breast embroidery don't appear to be regimental. If it were a regimental uniform, I'd expect an identifiable regimental emblem on the collar. I'd also expect the collar edge to have a wider gold lace, sometimes with identifiable regimental motif. 3. Maxwell initially served in the Sussex Regiment, then in various other regimental and staff assignments. He was attached to Roberts Light Horse when he won the VC, but that doesn't mean he was a member of Roberts. Wikipedia cites a number of units assigned. 4. He also served as Kitchener's aide-de-camp in South Africa and later in India. He's wearing the aigulette of an aide, although in the USA, wearing it on the right shoulder denotes an aide to the President. I had thought the UK followed the same practice, aide to the sovereign. This uniform could reflect that service. (A likely time to have such a photograph made) 5. Dates of award of the CSI and the bar to his DSO (not shown in this picture, awarded in 1916) could also narrow the date of the photo and hence the unit to which he was then assigned. I am sadly ignorant of the embroidery worn by Indian Army general officers. Now, let's see who's going to be the first to prove me wrong. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Hello ,I found that the pic is from 1912 and between December 1910 until June 1916 Major Maxwell was Military Secretary of the Viceroy Of India Lord Hardinge . then the Uniform showed must be a pattern only used by Officers of the Army appointed to the Viceroy Service The Embroidery is similar to that of the one of the Viceroys uniform coat . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Hi Gentlemen, thanks for the additional informative details, I was beginning to wonder if the uniform was not military in nature, diplomatic or indian service had crossed my mind, also, so assuming that's not too far from the actuality then it would be a combination of the attached, the colour image is a replica lord Chamberlain's but probably fairly accurate, thanks for the assistance regards Alex K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I had been going to guess 'Lord Lieutenant' or something similar: military looking, because that's cool, but not SO close to a real uniform as to annoy the Army. Viceroy's service makes perfect sense. Well spotted, Bayern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper_D Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Bayern said: Hello ,I found that the pic is from 1912 and between December 1910 until June 1916 Major Maxwell was Military Secretary of the Viceroy Of India Lord Hardinge . then the Uniform showed must be a pattern only used by Officers of the Army appointed to the Viceroy Service The Embroidery is similar to that of the one of the Viceroys uniform coat . It seems like Bayern was exactly on the right track! Below is a photo of such a tunic sold by Bosley's five years ago, described as "Edwardian Scarlet Uniform of an ADC to a Viceroy". The flower in the embroidery on the front of the tunic I take to be the Lotus flower, the symbol of India. cf with the tunic worn by the then ADC to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, the embroidery of which incorporated the shamrock, my source* tells me. Source: https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/bosleys-military-auctioneers/catalogue-id-srbos10006/lot-e9576a2a-ede6-43fb-befe-a44a009c3773 * 'British Uniform Pattern Book', Wm. Jones & Co, London, 1886 (reprinted 2006, DP & G, Doncaster) p. 6. Edited to add this photo of Charles Noel Hill, 9th Lord Berwick, who was Aide de Camp to The Viceroy of India between 1922 and 1925. Source: https://attinghamparkmansion.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/andys-diary-the-farmer-the-soldier-the-sailor-and-the-diplomat-introducing-the-less-eminent-lord-berwicks/ Edited July 31, 2020 by Trooper_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Such superb knowledge base from a simple question, and an exact uniform also, amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper_D Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 17 hours ago, Hugh said: 4. He also served as Kitchener's aide-de-camp in South Africa and later in India. He's wearing the aigulette of an aide, although in the USA, wearing it on the right shoulder denotes an aide to the President. I had thought the UK followed the same practice, aide to the sovereign. This uniform could reflect that service. (A likely time to have such a photograph made) Apologies, I should have spotted that you also made the ADC connection, Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Trooper D , Brilliant ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Brilliant work by all of you. This post is a credit to GMIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper_D Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) Oh joy, oh rapture unforeseen! It turns out that that ever wonderful website, archive.org, hosts a scan of Army Regulations, India, Vol. VII - Dress, a link to which is below. WARNING: this volume is additive and many hours can be wasted spent browsing it! https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.505458/page/n5/mode/2up Now, to matters in hand. It is pp. 19 & 20 that concern us and I reproduce the relevant extracts, for convenience, below. Source: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.505458/page/n31/mode/2up Edited August 1, 2020 by Trooper_D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Trooper_D said: Oh joy, oh rapture unforeseen! It turns out that that ever wonderful website, archive.org, hosts a scan of Army Regulations, India, Vol. VII - Dress, a link to which is below. WARNING: this volume is additive and many hours can be wasted spent browsing it! https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.505458/page/n5/mode/2up Now, to matters in hand. It is pp. 19 & 20 that concern us and I reproduce the relevant extracts, for convenience, below. Source: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.505458/page/n31/mode/2up Again, Yes interesting stuff, unfortunately the links don't work for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper_D Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 35 minutes ago, Alex K said: Again, Yes interesting stuff, unfortunately the links don't work for me That's very annoying, Alex! However, the image I posted is all that is relevant there for this thread. If you wanted to see the rest of the volume, a search on archive.org using the title given in my original post is probably the best route for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Trooper, many thanks for the link ! a pre view said to me that IS addictive . Craig : Servitore ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) On 31/07/2020 at 14:48, Trooper_D said: Apologies, I should have spotted that you also made the ADC connection, Hugh. And just a final note on the aiguillette - Since he was ADC to the Viceroy, wearing it on the right side, as noted in the extract below, is completely correct, since the Viceroy is the Vice King, equivalent to a sovereign for India. Hugh Edited August 3, 2020 by Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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