Long service cross 50 years

[bilylev]

Hello guys,

one local auction is offering this cross, which I am missing in my collection. I would like to know your opinion as far as authenticity is concerned.

Thanks

Jan

[graham]

Some good info here that may be of help:

 

https://www.omsa.org/officers-military-service-decoration-first-class-1890-1918-part-i/

 

and 

 

https://www.omsa.org/officers-military-service-decoration-first-class-1890-1918-part-ii/

[bilylev]

Thank you, I am familiar with those sites and all the informations they contain,  but that does not help me make up my mind whether the cross offered is original or not.

Edited August 26, 2023 by bilylev

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

 

from what I can see in the provided pictures, the cross is a pre-1918, private purchase piece. This is quite reassuring, I hope, since many pieces offered on the market are the rather well-made copies made by Messrs. Rothe & Neffe, Vienna, until the mid 70s of 20th Century.

 

In the hope of being of some help, I would like to post some pictures of an original cross, made of gilt silver, struck with all the correct marks we would like to see on such pieces.

 

As a curiosity, I would also like to post the images of a further cross for 50 years service for officers, of a quite uncommon to see variation.

 

These two pieces are from my own collection.

 

All the best,

 

Enzo

[bilylev]

Thank you very much Enzo. You are great as always. I would like to get it. Starting price is USD 1000,-. What do you think? Is it fair?

Thanks

Jan

[Elmar Lang]

You're welcome Jan, I'm always glad if I can be of any help.

 

Re the price, if we consider how the price of Austro-hungarian awards is increasing in these years, yes, I think it's a relatively fair starting price (keep in mind that the auction's fees have to be added too...).

 

All the best,

 

Enzo (E.L.)

[bilylev]

Thank you Enzo. It is collectors society auction, they are charging auction fee 10 percent only 🙂. If I may ask you again, they are offering also FJI commander with starting price USD 680,-. The ribbon is not original. What is your opinion concerning authenticity and price?

Thanks

Jan

Edited August 27, 2023 by bilylev

[gjw]

Great info and wonderful pictures from EL as always!

Thanks EL!

 

Best Regards 

 

Greg

[Elmar Lang]

8 hours ago, bilylev said:

 

 

8 hours ago, bilylev said:

 

Hello again, 

Thank you all for the kind words. 

 

Re. the Franz Joseph Orden, honestly I would pass on it and spare those 680,- Euro for something else. 

 

The cross itself looks like a piece probably made by Mayer's Söhne, Vienna (although no maker's mark appears as having been struck to the round ring, passing through the crown's orb and the overall quality looks like being less accurate than what would be to expect even from a gilt-bronze piece made by Mayer). The long, grooved, tapering ribbon ring is typical of the awards made by Messrs. Johnson, Milan, Italy, from the early 50s of 20th Century onwards. 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Enzo 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Elmar Lang

[bilylev]

Thank you very much again Enzo. I will follow your advice 🙂.

Jan

[Farkas]

On 27/08/2023 at 20:11, Elmar Lang said:

 

Hello again, 

Thank you all for the kind words. 

 

Re. the Franz Joseph Orden, honestly I would pass on it and spare those 680,- Euro for something else. 

 

The cross itself looks like a piece probably made by Mayer's Söhne, Vienna (although no maker's mark appears as having been struck to the round ring, passing through the crown's orb and the overall quality looks like being less accurate than what would be to expect even from a gilt-bronze piece made by Mayer). The long, grooved, tapering ribbon ring is typical of the awards made by Messrs. Johnson, Milan, Italy, from the early 50s of 20th Century onwards. 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Enzo 

 

 

 

 

Hello Enzo,

as a man who still can’t tell an original ribbon from a modern one i find myself continuously in awe of your knowledge...

 

tony 🍻

[bilylev]

Hello,

so I failed the auction. Someone bought it for €1,600 plus auction fee. God knows where those prices will go.

Jan

[bilylev]

Another auction. May I know your opinion?

Regards

Jan

[tifes]

Hi,

 

H.D. Rauch auction. I think it´s a private purchased piece in gilded bronze, with good chances to be made pre-1918 (further inspection would be fine). The whole thing was basically simple as higher officer, usually general or colonel (there were also some Lt.Col, few Majors and one Captain only) reached 50 years of service, received the Military Service Cross 1st Class for 50 years in silver, and had their original 2nd Class Crosses privately altered by adding a crown in surmounting. This is what it looks like, maybe not the best quality though.

 

Regards,

 

Tomas/Tifes

[bilylev]

Thank you. Better not to touch it.

[tifes]

Hi,

 

well, I didn´t say that "H.D. Rauch" piece is not an original 2nd piece (on the contrary) but I liked more the MDZ 1st class for 50 years on the first picture, which was in better quality. If you would like to acquire an awarded piece in gilded silver as displayed by Elmar Lang then prepare yourself to wait for a very long time and then to pay a significant price for it (now I would say between 5000 to 6000 EUR).   

 

Regards,

 

Tomas/Tifes

 

[bilylev]

Thank you. I am afraid that I might have to wait until the end of my life for the original cross awarded. And besides, I could never be sure of the authenticity. In the upcoming local auction there is this one, I will try it.

[tifes]

10 hours ago, bilylev said:

Thank you. I am afraid that I might have to wait until the end of my life for the original cross awarded. And besides, I could never be sure of the authenticity. In the upcoming local auction there is this one, I will try it.

Well, I would rather skip this one...

Edited March 29 by tifes

[bilylev]

Thank you very much. I will skip it.