MMThO "FR"

[StefanK.]

What is your opinion on this piece? The piece weights 15.2g (with ribbon) and measures 30,2mm (width). Thanks in advance for your input. Greetings, Stefan

[Farkas]

Hello Stefan,

i’ve no expertise in it, but that is a lovely looking piece in my opinion, looks to be in great condition.

The only things i know to look for in ribbons is for the loops at the end of the rows, which yours has... and i check it with ultraviolet too.

 

So, again, just in my amateur opinion, i like the look of it, the hallmark looks good and the ribbon does too,

 

That probably doesn’t add much to inform your opinion but.. 

I did find this which i think relates to the hallmark stamps on yours.

 

I look forward to hearing to hearing the experts opinions 👍

 

cheers

tony 🍻

[Christian1962]

I am not an expert for MMTO. In my opinon the cross looks very nice, but the ribbon is definitly a new one.

 

The crosses were produced by Rothe until year 2000. I don´t know which hallmarks they used after 1922. I own some collectors copies which were made for the Fattovich collection in the 1960ties. As far as I remember these are not hallmarked in spite they are gold.

But I remember the words of a collector friend who always said "we have all hallmarks on stock..." when he had doubts regarding an expensive piece.

That is the most reason for me never purchasing a MMTO.

Regards

Christian

Edited September 15, 2023 by Christian1962

[tifes]

Hi,

for me it's definitely a big NO! Both central medaillons might be originals as Rothe kept the parts of former AH decorations "in drawers", which were used in later collectors pieces till 1980s. So, the both central medaillons, avers and revers, could be pre-1918 originals, however further inspection in flesh would be required. The rest, the cross itself seems to be of much inferior quality and the worst comes with suspension with hallmarks/ maker's mark on it. These are just fakes as no other description comes to my mind, because they were made with the purpose to fool somebody. I would recommend to keep hands off it. 

 

Regards,

 

Tifes (Tomas)

Edited September 15, 2023 by tifes
Typo

[StefanK.]

17 hours ago, Christian1962 said:

I am not an expert for MMTO. In my opinon the cross looks very nice, but the ribbon is definitly a new one.

 

The crosses were produced by Rothe until year 2000. I don´t know which hallmarks they used after 1922. I own some collectors copies which were made for the Fattovich collection in the 1960ties. As far as I remember these are not hallmarked in spite they are gold.

But I remember the words of a collector friend who always said "we have all hallmarks on stock..." when he had doubts regarding an expensive piece.

That is the most reason for me never purchasing a MMTO.

Regards

Christian

Hello Christian, do yu have pictures of how the Fattovich-pieces looked like?

[Christian1962]

8 hours ago, StefanK. said:

Hello Christian, do yu have pictures of how the Fattovich-pieces looked like?

 

Hello Stefan,

 

I own just Fattovich-pieces of other orders (espc. Order of Leopold), no MMTO - sorry.

 

Regards

 

Christian

[StefanK.]

Ok I see. Would you mind showing eg a Leopoldorden? I would like to understand how the craftmanship of the pre 1918 pieces differs copared to the fattovich pieces. 

[Christian1962]

Here some pics of different Rothe collectors copies from the Fattovich collections. Some of them are shwon in Mericka´s book from 1974.

 

Regards

Christian

 

Großkreuz mit Kriegsdekoration:

 

Eiserne Krone 2. Kl. mit Kriegsdekoration und Schwertern

zum 2. Mal verliehen:

Here a 1st class set with "Kriegsdekoration niederen Grades".

Edited September 17, 2023 by Christian1962

[Graf]

On 15/09/2023 at 04:59, StefanK. said:

What is your opinion on this piece? The piece weights 15.2g (with ribbon) and measures 30,2mm (width). Thanks in advance for your input. Greetings, Stefan

The best site is the Austrian Dorotheum Auction House

The last Auction they have early Original and late Rothe production

You can go to the site and look the last Military Orders Auction and stroll

The originals are at the beginning of the list the new ones are at the end of the Austrian Section

Otherwise is a nice piece

 

Regards

https://www.dorotheum.com/en/a/96172/

here is the link to the Auction

Edited September 17, 2023 by Graf