Soviet Medal for a Veteran of the Armed forces of the USSR

[Guest Darrell]

Well ... I searched till my eyeballs dropped and I can't find another thread on these. I'm sure there is ... I'm just going blind

Anyway ... another of the lesser- "Who Cares" medals. This is the Medal for a Veteran of the Armed forces of the USSR:

[Guest Darrell]

Reverse:

[order_of_victory]

I wonder if any of the members has a gold version?

I know some one who has one I'll see if I can get pic

[Gerd Becker]

Darrel, i guess, as its an award for a whole career, the Veterans valued them.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Gerd Becker

[order_of_victory]

Heres a link to a website I know this show the gold version next to the regular one

http://www.redmedals.com/about_us_collect3.htm

[Guest Darrell]

I wonder if any of the members has a gold version?

I know some one who has one I'll see if I can get pic

Yep ... I was reading about that in the Red Bible

It says that's Variation 2. Entirely Gold Plated. At the time of the writing of the book, they speculate that it may have been a variation for general officers only.

Geez ... you go after one ... another 2 or 3 variations spring up

[Ed_Haynes]

. . . Red Bible . . . .

Like that. Will "borrow" it.

[Ed_Haynes]

And . . .

. . . from a group that "happens" to be on my scanner just now . . .

. . . http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3222 . . .

. . . the certificate.

Cover.

[Ed_Haynes]

Page 2.

Have not scanned the statutory pages - can do so on request.

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't click on unknown links, so I have no idea what ongoing rumors are still rippling out there after the ILL-ADVISED McDaniel report of such supposed "gold medals" but I have never seen any such thing in a group. I would class gold Veteran of the Armed Forces medals as Collector Fantasies.

Air Force Major General of Engineer Technical Branch Dmitry Petukhov did NOT get a "gold" medal:

[attachmentid=38440]

Nor did lonnnnnnnng retired Engineer Rear Admiral Kaidanov:

[attachmentid=38441]

and I am sure that Dave can confirm no such "gold" awards in any group he's ever handled-- and THAT's a lot!

[Guest Rick Research]

These were also given to KGB personnel:

KGB Technical Senior Lieutenant "of the reserves" Grebennik has his own thread in the reseached sub-forum:

[attachmentid=38444]

and did I ever do one on railways security KGB Lieutenant Colonel "of the reserves" Grinenko?:

[attachmentid=38445]

as well as military recipients

secret advisor Colonel Vozhachenko's document does NOT refer to him as either "of the reserves" OR "retired" (nudge nudge wink wink)

[Guest Alanirvine]

[attachmentid=38483]

Normal on the left gold on the right.

I think that I purchased the gold Veteran about three years ago from a dealer in Isreal.

Alan

[Eric Gaumann]

I don't click on unknown links, so I have no idea what ongoing rumors are still rippling out there after the ILL-ADVISED McDaniel report of such supposed "gold medals" but I have never seen any such thing in a group. I would class gold Veteran of the Armed Forces medals as Collector Fantasies.

and I am sure that Dave can confirm no such "gold" awards in any group he's ever handled-- and THAT's a lot!

Yeah, good point. But then again Paul & Paul have seen a lot of medals between them so....

I was gonna say the fact we haven't seen the market flooded with these gold, general's medal's must prove that they are very rare.

But then again, if they *did* exist (and were therefore rare as hen's teeth) our friends the fakers would be all over them like red on the Kremlin (or 'white on Siberia'???).

BTW, the link is very benign, and the image posted below is so...un-Soviet general-like that I'm stumped.

I doubt I'd buy one for more than twenty, and then only as a lark

Edited May 9, 2006 by Eric Gaumann

[Eric Gaumann]

Alan, does the gray of your medal's ribbon have a gold-tone to it or is it just my eyes? And is the suspension the typical aluminum suspension of that era or something different?

[Riley1965]

Although I've never heard of a gold version until now, I trust and respect Paul & Paul. This wouldn't be the first rare version of an ODM that they have found. Remember the Medium Mondvor mint mark ORS Paul McDaniel discovered with the serial number in the 8700 range. If they found gold versions then I believe them.

Doc

[Guest Alanirvine]

[attachmentid=38498]

Eric, never noticed, but I think that there is a slight gold tone to the ribbon. I can't tell you why. Maybe someone knows a little more about the gold version.

Here is the reverse.

Alan

[Eric Gaumann]

Thanks Alan!

Edited May 9, 2006 by Eric Gaumann

[Guest Rick Research]

People, people, people...

They did NOT report SEEING such medals... they reported the RUMOR of such medals, and with an uncharacteristic lack of any supporting evidence (there being none) listed the RUMOR as a POTENTIAL variant.

As in their other main leap of evidence, the "one piece Service to the Homeland" variant which also does not exist. THAT rumor we can lay off on Dietrich Herfurth, who was speculating so at least by 1995, when I got HIS pocket price guide.

Until now there has never been any kachingkaching market worth dolling up these low priced medals. That, obviously, will spontaneously create itself as long as people are willing to believe in imaginary "variants" and desire to own such "variants."

Repeating mistakes DOES create a market-- as the perpetual "discovery" of unsupported Third Reich treasures has long shown.

But it doesn't make the items any more real.

Between our Dave and, say, Igor Moiseyev, half the general officer corps of the old Union must have had their items pass through their hands in the last 10++ years. Have either of them ever had a documented "gold Veteran" example in a general officer group?

Anybody seen any "gold" Veterans of Labor?

[Riley1965]

On the flip side of the coin...You can not honestly reject the possibility that such a version may exist. Just because it hasn't crossed your palms doesn't mean it isn't a possibility.

Doc

[Eric Gaumann]

The book does say "v2 - gold plated", not 'there's a rumor of a gold plated medal'.

So I'd say on that citation alone that P&P have seen said medal. They're not infallible, and naturally things have changed a great deal since the book was published, but based on that alone a gold medal *did* exist and it passed muster. I might add that P&P based their observations on what was in their hands, not images on a website.

But then again your evidence to the contrary is very convincing as well. If these were, indeed, General's awards they would have shown up by now and would have been well documented.

That's why places like this forum are so great. Here we can lay this issue to rest.

Time will tell.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Eric Gaumann

[Guest Rick Research]

Remember the "die error reverse" WW2 campaign medals?

Those, as I understand it from the Secret Soviet Website (the one with locked doors) have now been confirmed as fraudulent slipshod rush jobs. FAKES-- not "mint mistakes."

Or the much published "non Roman numeral" KGB long service medals that Igor Moiseyev (based on handling 16 zillion documented groups) has always insisted-- correctly, as it turns out -- were Fire Department awards. ALL KGB long service medals do indeed have Roman numerals on front.

Data has now improved. Data is always improving. Research, hard work, and sharing hard information between collectors updates data all the time.

Do not talk yourselves into buying--literally-- fairy tales.

I've seen that often enough in Third Reich to want to nip that right in the bud.

That is what we are here for:

GOOD information, and mutual protection from misinformation at best and fraud at worst.

Anybody who wants to "believe," joy and happiness.

I call 'em as I see 'em and my first, last and ALWAYS concern is to make sure that the BEST information

the most reliable information

is out there

and that BAD information and

BAD items do not victimize anyone in our community.

Me, I don't have and never have had enough money to WASTE on unsupported Ifs And Maybes.

There are enough REAL rarities and variants out there--

all of which CAN be verified by long observation and collector cooperation, not to get into this sort of wishful thinking.

I've had my say based on my long experience, hard work, time spent in study, and not least--ability to read Russian. Based upon that, my best informed advice to anyone willing to listen is

do not buy one of these "gold" VoAFMs with the expectation that it is going to turn out to be anything other than a curiosity, a mistake, or a sly bit of sales hype. Gamble, if that's how you collect, but never more than you can afford to throw away.

I've seen it too many times, and Been There And Done That myself in my German and early Soviet collecting days.

[NavyFCO]

I'm jumping into this a bit late, but I can say that I've owned a good number of general's groups and none ever had a gold Veteran medal in it. I've seen even more than I've owned, and none of them have had that medal either... The only times I've ever seen that medal is by itself, and strangely, either being offered from, or being attributed to Israel. I can't comment much beyond that... maybe they did exist, but they certainly weren't given out to generals and admirals entirely as a retirement present as there are just too many groups from said people (including Branch Marshals and MSUs) that have come direct from the families that don't have these awards.

Just my two cents...

Dave

[Gerd Becker]

One must keep in mind, that the book was written 1997 and of course do come new fact to light every now and then. Compared to other references it has not very much mistakes and is still today THE BOOK for collectors of soviet awards. Maybe the new book from Shishkov and Muzalevsky will take its place one day, but without a doubt its still one of the most reliable references on the market.

A very respected russian collector told me that there was no change of Liberation of Belgrade Medals for Military Merit Medals, does anyone know more about this?

best

Gerd

[order_of_victory]

Here my Veteran of the Armed forces of the USSR the doc has only just arrived

Order of Victory

[Riley1965]

Order of Victory,

Congrats!! Both the medal and the document look GREAT!!

Doc