Luftwaffe HG Tabs

[Paul R]

Good Morning everyone!

I have these tabs placed on hold for me by Weitze. Everything about these tabs appear period. The only problem is that I know nothing about TK insignia and am requesting an experienced opinion.

These are being sold to me as medical, yet I doubt that this is the case as it specifically states in the regs(Angolia) that medical personel attached to the HG would retain their solid waffenfarbe tabs. However, I do feel that these tabs are for a reservist in the Reg HG(early early HG tabs).

I am very excited about them!

Anyway, any thoughts and comments are strongly encouraged and welcome.

[Paul R]

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[Laurence Strong]

Hi Paul

They definitely look Ok. I am at work and nowhere near any books, if you think they are early, check and see when they first had any AFV's to be able to wear the skull and bones.

[Paul R]

I will have to do some reading as well.. do you know when the Luftwaffe discontinued the use of the Blue reserve secondary waffenfarbe?

Regards

Paul

[Gary B]

Paul,

I can not recall any discontinue dates for Reserve color in Angolias book. Tab production in general stopped in 44, I believe.

Nice tabs!

Gary B

[Paul R]

Thanks Gary.

I thought that the "reserves" were abolished either pre or early war. I am trying to date the piece here.

Also, I have no experience with the TK insignia. What are your views on the skulls?

Regards

Paul

[Gary B]

Paul,

I have not studied, nor collected the TK tabs for the Luft, so I am of no help here. I am still struggling to focus on the "regular" waffenfarbes but YOU keep broadening my collection I am currently looking at all of the admin tabs I have to buy to complete the tab collection!

G

[Robin Lumsden]

Paul.

I'll leave the time-span of the waffenfarbe etc. to others more knowledgeable about Luftwaffe items.

What I can tell you is that the skulls are original, but late. That type was never seen before 1944.

So if the piping was discontinued early on, the skulls could have been added later.

Do the skulls look worn/pitted to you.......a bit more worn than the tabs?

Here's the only HG tab I have, for comparison.........the skulls on earlier LW tabs should be more like this. Standard army type.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Robin Lumsden

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's another......from the army.

[Robin Lumsden]

Here's an HG man with unpiped tabs, mid-war.

[Paul R]

Robin,

Thank you for your expertice with the TK issue. I will definately have to hit the books.

What were the later TKs made of? Zinc? Is it possible that under humid or unfavorable conditions, this metal can corrode, without leaving effects on the material?

When looking at the tabs closely, I see some threads along the blue piping? Could this be evidence that the tabs were attached to a tunic at some point, or is this part of the overall construction? Can I please see a reverse shot of the panzer tab?

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and time!

Regards

Paul

[Paul R]

After some reading in vol 1 of Angolia's Uniforms and Traditions of the Luftwaffe, I have determined:

1. That the Luftwaffe starting using blue for a secondary waffenfarbe for their reserve officers in Apr1935. Nothing was ever mentioned about the reserve program ever being abolished.

2. In January 1944, the use of collar tabs was abolished(by divisional degree...not by the "Berlin" or even Hermann Goering although I am sure that he unofficially OK'ed it) on FIELD and COMBAT uniforms. This would mean that collar tabs would still have been worn on uniforms worn on back on the home front and/or while on Liberty/Leave.

If there is nothing to contradict the above, that would mean that these Very Rare tabs were very likely worn per regs in 1944.

What are your thoughts(anyone) on this?

[joetauchretter]

Good Morning everyone!

I have these tabs placed on hold for me by Weitze. Everything about these tabs appear period. The only problem is that I know nothing about TK insignia and am requesting an experienced opinion.

These are being sold to me as medical, yet I doubt that this is the case as it specifically states in the regs(Angolia) that medical personel attached to the HG would retain their solid waffenfarbe tabs. However, I do feel that these tabs are for a reservist in the Reg HG(early early HG tabs).

I am very excited about them!

Anyway, any thoughts and comments are strongly encouraged and welcome.

Hello Paul,

As a collector of TR items for nearly 40 years I do not have a good feeling on these tabs . The tab looks too new compaired to the metal death's head , one would expect some of the oxidation of the metal to be on the white cloth . I do not like the metal death's head as it looks like the head and prongs are stamped from one piece of metal and the prongs bent over , I have seen this too many times on repro death's head emblems . The tab it's self just looks too new and looks to have never been sewn on a tunic or worn for that matter ! I would be very wary of any item that is over 60 years old and still looks new . Also , if the head was replaced at some time you should see a strong impression in the cloth from the original head and the prong holes would indicate the addition of this new head . The tab shown here has some form of tape over the prongs which I have never seen on originals and most heads had prongs in further which would make a noticible set of holes in the backing cloth . I see no indication that this was sewn on a tunic , you would still see the threads or at least the needle holes . This is just my humble opinion !

[Robin Lumsden]

I tend to agree with the post above.

Here's the back of the army tab Paul, as requested......

[Paul R]

Thanks Robin and Joe.

I will pass on it... That is a tricky one. IF the TK were real, I would have bought the set!

Regards

Paul

[Robin Lumsden]

Paul.

Just to clarify.

In my opinion the TKs are real.

I just doubt whether they originally belonged to those tabs.

[Paul R]

Hi Robin,

Thank you for the clarification. That really makes a difference in my opinion. Weitze has a great return policy. If things do not look "Kosher" when I have them in hand, there is an awesome ribbon bar that I will return them for! I have more to say, yet I will post it upon receipt of the set later this week.

V/r

Paul

[Daniel Murphy]

Paul,

The tabs are real. The "tape" on the back is not tape. Glue was applied to the backing cloth and then a piece of paper was placed over it. You can see the yellow colored horse glue extends outside of the borders of the paper. As far as not being sewn on, those little cut threads hanging loose around the edge show it has been sewn on and then cut off. The fact that the threads look feldgrau does not hurt it. I have WW1 Feldgrau uniforms with yellow, blue and purple thread used to sew them together. Often it is mixed on one uniform, they just used whatever was on the bobbin.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Paul R]

Thanks Daniel!

I can hardly wait for them to arrive so that I can evaluate them in hand.

Regards

Paul