Romanian Victory Medals

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Another Romanian just in - I think it's the Unofficial Type 3a. It has the narrow links to the chain, with the Ns the right way round and Gs where they should except for the first letter of Grecia, which is a C. Planchet is 36mm diameter and 2mm+ thick.

Obverse. Laslo says the suspension is narrow cylinder, but this looks more like thick wire.

Reverse. I'll need to get a proper piece of French ribbon.

Close-up of the lettering on the reverse.

All comments welcome.

Bill

Edited April 5, 2013 by Bilco

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

The close-ups for the lettering of the countries names - I've tried to cut the number of pictures needed to cover them all ...

.... and nearly forgot the 10th country!

Bill

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Bill,

Thank you for the picture quality.

Regards

Jean-Michel

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Another Romanian just in - I think it's the Unofficial Type 3a.

Oh no it isn't! After looking at the photos I posted and then examining the medal under a magnifying glass I now think it's an Unofficial Type 3 - just like the one I posted previously.

The photo from the seller looked very promising .... isn't that BELGIA???

... but I now think it was a trick of the lighting, plus some wishful thinking on my part. I had a discreet poke at the lettering in BELGIA with a wooden toothpick and now it looks just like BELCIA! And ANCLIA for the one to the left.

I've been over the seller's photos of the medal and compared every flaw and mark and I'm convinced that I have the medal that he photographed, so it's my mistake

Bill

[RobW]

Oh no it isn't! After looking at the photos I posted and then examining the medal under a magnifying glass I now think it's an Unofficial Type 3 - just like the one I posted previously.

The photo from the seller looked very promising .... isn't that BELGIA???

... but I now think it was a trick of the lighting, plus some wishful thinking on my part. I had a discreet poke at the lettering in BELGIA with a wooden toothpick and now it looks just like BELCIA! And ANCLIA for the one to the left.

I've been over the seller's photos of the medal and compared every flaw and mark and I'm convinced that I have the medal that he photographed, so it's my mistake

Bill

Hello Bill,

It is a nice unofficial type 3 nonetheless. The unofficial type 3a are particularly scarce and hard to find.

Regards,

Rob

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

I'm venturing into the Romanians again, after my debacle in April, with what I think is the Unofficial Type 1 with ball suspension. Unfortunately, it has a modern British ribbon, which I'll have to try to find a replacement for.

Obverse

Reverse.

I'll produce some close-ups of the countries on the reverse in due course.

Bill

[RobW]

Hi Gents,

I'm venturing into the Romanians again, after my debacle in April, with what I think is the Unofficial Type 1 with ball suspension. Unfortunately, it has a modern British ribbon, which I'll have to try to find a replacement for.

I'll produce some close-ups of the countries on the reverse in due course.

Bill

Hello Bill,

A nice unofficial type you have. As you have indicated it is a bit more difficult to obtain these Romanian pieces with correct era or correct to type ribbon. In a lot of cases the French ribbon was used so that would be a suitable substitute.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Hello Bill,

It is a nice unofficial type 3 nonetheless. The unofficial type 3a are particularly scarce and hard to find.

Regards,

Rob

To one and all,

For those yet to see such an example, here is a pic of the Romanian unofficial type 3a. The reverse details and differences are very noticeable. This should clear up any confusion over the reverse details for those looking for one.

This particular example sold online some months ago. They are not seen often.

Regards,

Rob

Edited October 9, 2013 by RobW

[lambert]

Hi Bill,
Good to have it back, is a fine example unofficial.

Is preferable to have even one British Ribbon, than having horrible modern ribbons.

Best Regards

Lambert

[johnnymac]

Hello to all

(unofficial Romanian) type-3, type-3A, type-4 and type-4A.

Regards to all, Jim

Double click on photo to enlarge photo!

Edited October 10, 2013 by johnnymac

[lambert]

Sharper pictures in my Vic Romania.

Edited October 10, 2013 by lambert

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

As threatened, the close-ups of my Unoff Type 1:

Some of the horizontals in the letters are very faint - the T in ITALIA is typical - and some of the diagonal strokes in the Ns go to the bottom of the right-hand vertical, while others are part way up. The final A in (AME)RICA is very shy - just the top angle peeping over the leaf!

Bill

Edited October 10, 2013 by Bilco

[lambert]

Hi Bill

very good.

BR

Lambert

[RobW]

Hello to all

(unofficial Romanian) type-3, type-3A, type-4 and type-4A.

Regards to all, Jim

Double click on photo to enlarge photo!

new post.jpg

Hello Jim,

The numbering system for my post (# 158) identifying the item as the unofficial type 3a, is based off that in Mr Laslo's second edition book. I am sure that there are other examples and varieties, as shown in your post.

Regards,

Rob

Edited October 12, 2013 by RobW

[RobW]

Hi Gents,

As threatened, the close-ups of my Unoff Type 1:

Some of the horizontals in the letters are very faint - the T in ITALIA is typical - and some of the diagonal strokes in the Ns go to the bottom of the right-hand vertical, while others are part way up. The final A in (AME)RICA is very shy - just the top angle peeping over the leaf!

Bill

Hello Bill,

A nice example, in surprisingly good condition, of the unofficial type 1. Have fun trying to obtain a replacement ribbon.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

Hello Jim,

The numbering system for my post (# 158) identifying the item as the unofficial type 3a, is based off that in Mr Laslo's second edition book. I am sure that there are other examples and varieties, as shown in your post.

Regards,

Rob

Good morning, Rob,

Using Laslo's numbering system, we truly do not know what his thoughts were as to the unofficial 3A. He left his book without an illustration and there is a very vague description of the 3A. Since his book was published, there have been at least several new Romanian medals found with the same suspension all having the "C" and not "G" as does the unofficial 3. What is your basis for a description of the unofficial type 3A?

Regards to all, Jim

[RobW]

Good morning, Rob,

Using Laslo's numbering system, we truly do not know what his thoughts were as to the unofficial 3A. He left his book without an illustration and there is a very vague description of the 3A. Since his book was published, there have been at least several new Romanian medals found with the same suspension all having the "C" and not "G" as does the unofficial 3. What is your basis for a description of the unofficial type 3A?

Regards to all, Jim

Jim,

The following excerpt from Mr Laslo's volume (2nd edition) seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

"Type 3a - Reverse has the correct use of the letter 'G' except for Greece which reads 'CRECIA'. Other reverse die variations compared to the Unofficial Type 3."

The picture in post #158 meets all those criteria. I have also included a screenshot of the text from page 79 of Mr Laslo's book for others to reference.

Regards,

Rob

Edited October 12, 2013 by RobW

[johnnymac]

Rob

• This photo shows a copy of RO unofficial 3 from Laslo's book.
• It shows the photo you posted as RO unofficial 3a
• As well, you posted this description from Laslo's book. Type 3a If reading, "other reverse die variation compared to Unofficial type 3".

4 major differences, that I feel is not just "die variations of the type 3".

1. OVAL style chain, (that in itself should have classed your medal as a RO unofficial type 4).

2. An oyster style leaf on the axe blade on the right side.

3. By the word BELGIA, the leaf in your photo is touching a different chain link than the one on Laslo's type 3.

4. And between the words, China and Romania, the leaf in your photo is much longer.

Edited October 14, 2013 by johnnymac

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

On eBay at the moment is an Unofficial Type 3 with a strange suspension:

I suspect that a piece of brass tube has been soldered on in place of the original suspension - there seem to be traces of solder at the top of the planchet on both obverse and reverse. Also, the suspension ring seems to be thicker and of smaller diameter than normal.

What do you think?

Bill

[johnnymac]

I think you nailed it, Jim

[RobW]

Hello Bill,

Given the number of unofficial types and varieties it is not altogether unexpected that there would be a myriad of suspension devices and types. I am sure that there would have been all manner of minor variations in production dependant on the local Romanian manufacturer.

I have also seen examples were the barrel suspender looked more like a ring and/or a cylinder.

Regards,
Rob

[johnnymac]

This “new” suspect listed by Bilco has a suspension that can be found on one of the five newly found Polish Victory Medals. Plus, the ring has been forced into suspension from the looks of it.

If we accept everything that seems to be a different type, we are adding to the injustice of promoting fakes. “Just because a young men rings your door bell wearing a suit and tie does not make him a gentlemen”. That’s why he must earn your trust through a “long” courtship with your daughter and family.

There are so many lies and fakes out there hiding under the umbrella as an unofficial medal. I ask…. are we making the original issue medals almost worthless and making the unknown quantities of unofficial medals more desirable? I believe the driving force behind this trend is the lack of availability of some of the rare medals and the need to have something special in one’s own collection.

I think a medal that is undocumented and its origins of manufacturer is without question unclear, we need to stop classing it as “another unofficial” medal from a country it seems to represent. Rather we should put this unknown suspect under the light and grill it until the truth about it is known.

To me this medal like the Polish medal is clear, no history no creditability. Bill, I think you nailed that medal!

[lambert]

Hi Gents,

On eBay at the moment is an Unofficial Type 3 with a strange suspension:

I suspect that a piece of brass tube has been soldered on in place of the original suspension - there seem to be traces of solder at the top of the planchet on both obverse and reverse. Also, the suspension ring seems to be thicker and of smaller diameter than normal.

What do you think?

Bill

Hi Bill

I really like the patina! It has a very attractive color.

Lambert

[davidck]

This is the other one I'm concerned may be fake...in this case because I got it on eBay and because it seems very shiny, which I didn't think the Romanian ones were. This is the "Crecia" unofficial version.

I am awaiting the Romanian official, which I got for $200 on eBay...seems cheap, but since the seller is in Bucharest, that allays my fears of it being fake.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-63485700-1387569536.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-72507400-1387569523.jpg

[RobW]

Hello David,

This is the other one I'm concerned may be fake...in this case because I got it on eBay and because it seems very shiny, which I didn't think the Romanian ones were. This is the "Crecia" unofficial version.

I am awaiting the Romanian official, which I got for $200 on eBay...seems cheap, but since the seller is in Bucharest, that allays my fears of it being fake.

There are a number of different finishes; shiny or dull bronze, that Romanian vics are seen in. In this case you have a good example of a 'reverse N' variety (unofficial type 2 in both Laslo volumes) that happens to have a shiny finish. It is illustrated as plates 72-73 in the first edition.

Regards,
Rob