Mondvor Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 What would guys make of this one, I suppose it's a replacement for a screwback?You are right, this is a replacement for a screwback. Nice Red Banner. It was replaced probably in 1944 or 1945 acording to a mintmark. Could be a Victory Parade peplacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vatjan Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 You are right, this is a replacement for a screwback. Nice Red Banner. It was replaced probably in 1944 or 1945 acording to a mintmark. Could be a Victory Parade peplacement.This is very interesting info for me Thank you.Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Great piece, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 This thread has become very interesting.... When I have the time, I will move a number of the posts to a new thread as "Discussion on an ORB variation/range.Andrei, I'm not sure I agree 100% with the "depth of enamel" thought. if you look again closely at your 2 pieces. The shape of the hammer (slight) & plow (MAJOR shape difference) are very distinctly different and IMO, different dies...Also, note the tops of the two "poles".. very different and not just from hand-finishing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 I'm sorry, but who is Alexei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Sorry, sorry, sorry Andrei.I plead a late night, exhausted post with minimal brain capacity left.....Mea Culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 That's OK Rick, no problem About Red Banners and different dies. First of all, those Red Banners were produced in July 1943 on Krasnokamsk Mint (Краснокамский Монетный Двор). It is highly unlikely that two different dies were used at the same time at this facility. I checked the shape of plow and hammer carefully but didn't find any distinctive differences that you mentioned. What looks as a shape difference is a result of bigger amount of white enamel, surrounding a hammer and a plow.Tops of torch and pole are very different even on an orders with a close serial numbers. You are right, they were hand-finished after order was stamped. This hand finishing procedure was performed with a files, so it is almost impossible to find two exact torches or poles. I don't like to use only words. I'll try to illustrate my opinion with a pictures. So here we have two RBs with close numbers 96550 and 96911. As you see, in both cases plow doesn't touch banner's handle. So it should be one die, right? But if we compare torch and pole we can see they are still different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Reverses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Very interesting, Andrei What i have learned by looking at as many Red Banners as possible, is that you can?t go by the obverse details, but better concentrate on the mint mark and s/n-style. Thats not allways the solution, like the ORB (from you) on the picture below shows, which is absolutely okay IMO, but the mint mark and the s/n-style are most unusual for this numberrange. I recommend you to take the time to take a look and also translate (with babelfish or similar...) the text to the single variations on Andrei?s websitewww.mondvor.narod.ruIts a slow connection, so be patient. But its worth the wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Gerd, you are right. Fake makers improve their skills constantly and fakes look better and better every next year . Sometimes it is hard to determine a fake looking only at the obverse.Here is another fake RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) That one looks just great from the obverse Even the mint mark and s/n doesn?t look so bad. Thats a really scary fake You just have to educate yourself, when collecting these orders and my next purchase will be Durov/Strelakov?s book about Red Banners. But if they improve their fakes as good as before, it will be very very difficult to spot a fake. Gerd Edited July 12, 2006 by Gerd Becker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 This Durov-Strekalov book is available online for free. So it's even easier for you to translate the text. Just copy part of the text and paste it to your translator. BTW, this book is a masterpiece. I highly recommend it to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 This Durov-Strekalov book is available online for free. So it's even easier for you to translate the text. Just copy part of the text and paste it to your translator. BTW, this book is a masterpiece. I highly recommend it to everyone.Hi Andrei,Can you please post the link where it's available to download?Works on Acrobat Reader?Another thing, which online translator would you recommend?Thanks in advance,Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 That one looks just great from the obverse Even the mint mark and s/n doesn?t look so bad. Thats a really scary fake You just have to educate yourself, when collecting these orders and my next purchase will be Durov/Strelakov?s book about Red Banners. But if they improve their fakes as good as before, it will be very very difficult to spot a fake. GerdWow! These fakes are indeed getting better and better everyday! But I guess I'd have some suspicions about this one, especially the obverse, because of some crude details on the surrounding wreath.Anyway I guess you're right Gerd, if they keep improving (and it's obvious they do!) one of these days I just don't know how to spot a fake! Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi Andrei,Can you please post the link where it's available to download?Works on Acrobat Reader?Another thing, which online translator would you recommend?Thanks in advance,DolfAndrei,yes, please send me a pm, where the book is available online. I will buy the hardcopy for sure, but i would really like to take a peek before.Thanks!Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 There are two links - for Part 1 and Part 2. Unfortunately they are not in PDF format, but in DOC format - regular Word Documents. However, pictures are available as well.http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform/p...28/chapter1.dochttp://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform/p...28/chapter2.docAbout translator, well, I don't use any translators, so it's hard to recommend something. But I belive you can find something searching the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolf Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 There are two links - for Part 1 and Part 2. Unfortunately they are not in PDF format, but in DOC format - regular Word Documents. However, pictures are available as well.http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform/p...28/chapter1.dochttp://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform/p...28/chapter2.docAbout translator, well, I don't use any translators, so it's hard to recommend something. But I belive you can find something searching the web.Andrei,Many, many thanks!As for the translator, of course you don't need one Where do I have my head? I know a few and use a couple of these from time to time, but I'm never happy with the results, so always looking for advice.Cheers,Dolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 There are two links - for Part 1 and Part 2. Unfortunately they are not in PDF format, but in DOC format - regular Word Documents. However, pictures are available as well.http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform/p...28/chapter1.dochttp://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform/p...28/chapter2.docAbout translator, well, I don't use any translators, so it's hard to recommend something. But I belive you can find something searching the web.Andrei, THANK YOU!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 OK, still trying to figure out how to split off this thread. Thanks for your patience. I guess we'll have to ask the Admin to intervene as we can't figure it out ourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Well folks, I am now the new proud custodian of Lt Parfiry Kuliba's Red Banner. It has found a good home Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Congrats to a very nice Red Banner, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now