Star of Brabant ribbon bar

[webr55]

Gentlemen,

here's something I think I was lucky to get:

Ribbon #4: Princely House Order of Hohenzollern, 3rd class w/o swords, with crown. According to Nimmergut, it was awarded to Beamten and officers up to Hauptmann. 71 awards from 1905-1927 (continued to be awarded in Weimar times).

Ribbon #5: If I am not mistaken, this is the Star of Brabant. The combination with the RAO suggests a Knight 1st class with crown.

Now there weren't many of them around... actually four, and seven for the Knight 2nd with crown. Nimmergut lists all recipients (well, only six for the 2nd cl). But only one of them was an officer, a certain

Major der Landwehr Hans Eberhardt, Handelsrichter (commercial judge), on 5.6.1918

Should this be his bar?

Regards

Chris

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

The back:

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

Closeup of the crowns:

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Guest Rick Research]

Does the roll you are citing show the OTHER information (as originals usually did)-- birthdate, residence, and so on? There are too many Eberhardts to sort out, and no apparent match in the 1908/09 Orders Almanach-- but then the factory owner Hans in Berlin there could be this guy BEFORE he got any Orders at all. (That guy had a Prussian XX but listed no RANK).

I have never seen a Brabant ribbon bar before. The backing looks good, but in these perilous, fake-flooded times:ARE THE RIBBONS SILK? I have certainly never seen FAKE ribbon bars with the Brabant either.... but then before this past year's deluge of phony Danzig Cross ribbon bars, had never seen one of THOSE on real ribbon bars (still haven't, for that matter) before.

I think you have found a jewel indeed. A nice straight horizontal larger scan (say 50% larger than posted already) of both sides and closeups of the complete ribbons with crown devices at x500 percent would be MOST appreciated for any future Ribbon Bar opus, since this is a first and may well be the last time we ever see a good Brabant bar!!! Rick

[webr55]

Nimmergut, alas, lists only the information I have given. No info about birth etc. The four recipients of the Brabant Knight's 1st with crown are:

1) Geh. Med.rat Dr. Michael Reisinger, from a hospital in Mainz

2) Prof. Biermann, im Kabinett f?r Kunstpflege (seems to be an art historian)

3) Hans Eberhardt

4) Lawyer and "Justizrat" Wilhelm Gr?newald, chairman of the University Society Gie?en, on 26.6.1918

I also found this factory owner in the OA 1908/09. But he is listed as a Hauptmann der Reserve in Berlin. with PrLD1 indeed! I think it must be him, though I don't know how he got to be a judge.

Dumb question: how do I determine whether it is silk? The whole bar certainly looks good, very clean and minty.

Closeups to follow!

[JensF.]

The ribbons look like new. I hope you checked them with a blacklight.

[Guest Rick Research]

Silk is smoother under a fingertip than the WW2 type ribbons (try comparing one of each and you will see what I mean), but indeed, if these are new ribbons the whites will glow bright electric blue under a blacklight. Silk ribbons of the Imperial period are usually straight across "ribbed" woven rows, so the watered "moir?" as seen on the Hohenzollern ribbon is what made me twitch too.

So far, the frauds we have seen coming out of Hesse have been of WW1 combinations on 1930s+ backings. This is definitely a WW1-1920s backing plate.

[Bob Hunter]

Still, a handsome bar regardless of who owns it.

[webr55]

The ribbons are definitely silk, smooth as can be.

[Stogieman]

Pretty special little bar, the pin/hinge looks very close to that odd medal bar I had earlier this year.

[medalnet]

Quite a sensation. I do own 2 full size medal bars, one with a knight first with crown and one with a knight first. I do know only one other bar that is now in the collection of one of the forum members. Edited October 20, 2005 by medalnet

[Daniel Krause]

Hi,

that bar is a hit!!!

The Star of Brabant is really a rare one!!!

This is the exact 2nd ribbon bar with one of them and the first one with a crown I see.

if You do not mind, may I use the pic for my ribbon bar project?????

Best regards

Daniel

[webr55]

Thanks all for your comments! Yes, you may all use my pictures. Here's a larger scan:

[webr55]

The crowns:

[webr55]

Daniel, have you got a pic of that other Brabant ribbon bar?

Andreas, has your Knight's 1st with crown bar been ID'd? Has to be one of the other three mentioned by Nimmergut!

[JensF.]

Welcome onboard Daniel!

[medalnet]

Daniel, have you got a pic of that other Brabant ribbon bar?

Andreas, has your Knight's 1st with crown bar been ID'd? Has to be one of the other three mentioned by Nimmergut!

No, it has not, yet I bought it from the family who could not recall the actual recipient. Amazing how some people treat their family heritage (...well, good for us collectors).

I try to dig out a picture of it to post.

Let me also mention that those numbers in Nimmergut's "book" are not correct. I believe that those are only the Hessian recipients. The person that actually did the research in the first place had only the source for the Hessians availiable.

[medalnet]

Of course I don't have a picture of the one handy with the knight first with crown, but here is a picture of the other one in my collection:

[Stogieman]

Fabulous bar Andreas............... rare in the extreme!

[medalnet]

Anybody wants to guess who the bearer of all those goodies is? I also have the documents....

[Bob Hunter]

Gorgeous bar, Andreas. Thanks for sharing it.

[webr55]

Let me also mention that those numbers in Nimmergut's "book" are not correct. I believe that those are only the Hessian recipients. The person that actually did the research in the first place had only the source for the Hessians availiable.

I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Certainly my guy was Prussian.

Superb bar, anyway!

[medalnet]

I didn't know that, but it makes sense. Certainly my guy was Prussian.

Superb bar, anyway!

Yes, it is unfortunately true. It seems that most modern publications are a summary of secondary sources. So the result is that there is nothing ever new and all mistakes surface ones more. A shame!!!

Yet, at least the quality of the pictures is getting better.

[Stogieman]

I would agree with Andreas on this. It seems curious that a lot of the newer reference books seem to simp;y cite/perpetuate the errors of their predecessors....... There seems to be very little "new" research going on except amongst a small circle of guys & gals. Exceptions of course abound, notably Mssrs. Pandis, Previterra, L?ndtrom. etc. are constantly searching for new details and information. I know there are many more, but few of them get published which is just a darn shame.