Claudius

Hello Vic; Yes, it would be rare indeed. Very rare. Could you please send some close up photos of the engraving. Thank you

While I have my imperial russian stuff out from lock and key. (not that hard to bring it out, there isn't very much and fits in one riker mount) I'll take some pictures of medals that I believe are orginal ribbons. I may black light them first to increase my odds of having it right, but I would like to hear what others may judge. (my St. George 3rd and 4th class won't be in this thread)

This is GREAT! Thank you Kustik12 for pinpointing this cross and providing the link with the websites. That is some nice research. Thank you GlennC for suggesting this was a White Army awarding. The number of each class awarded is nice to have. I'm going to make a hard copy -print - and put it in my russian medal book. I tried to recall who I bought the 3rd class cross from, but my notes only indicate that it was a Chicago show over 10 years ago. I didn't respond right away because I wanted to get some better (brighter) photos of the cross to add to the thread. I haven't been able to do that with school starting again. I did however gently lift the metal back plate off the hook to see what was back there. Nothing too interesting, but I'll take photos of that as well. So, Don Army. They operated from 1917-20 just north of the Caucaus -right? While I can understand their desire to turn a 4th class into a 3rd class, I'm surprised they serial numbered the cross. Did they keep records during the russian civil war as to who was awarded each cross? How many were awarded by the Don Army? Where are the records for the Don Army St. George cross winners? Can this number be traced?

Hello Brian; IMHO - I don't see anything out of order here. Your breakdown is quite correct. He was in the army in 1897, to earn the Centennial and was around in 1934 to get the Hindenburg. He was a minimum of 55 years old -probably older- when he added that HK to the medalbar end. Yes, the Kyffhauserbund medal was no longer used, but either it was in the in-between years he did this, or he just didn't care. He was an old soldier and no youngster was going to tell him how to wear his medals. The BMVO could be with or without swords. The without swords version awarded for peacetime. The swords for wartime. The BMVK was modeled on the Bav. Order. I believe that Bavarians wanted to award with swords for any soldier who served during wwi. Regardless if bullets were flying over head and he had a rifle in his hand. The HK is without swords because the cross is already a war veteran award. The swords were for distinguishing between an active fighter or non-combatant war veteran. Nice little bar to a wwi veteran, perhaps a NCO.

Outstanding! And with the photo Can we see the reverse? Can I ask how you found that? Were you in an antique shop in Samoa? :lol:

Not a doc., a Priest or Militärbeamter...great info Komtur! Also, imagine the length of time shown here. Nearly 30 years or more, covering from 1866 to 1895. If he was 18 in 1866 he would have been 48 when he earned the 25 year clasp. Maybe he was much older. Mounted frack style to accommodate the lapels on the suit coat. Suggesting that he was with the 3rd, 9th or 10th AK in 1870. Now this is conjecture, and maybe it is incorrect so please tell me know if this likely or not. I'm leaning toward this being a low level Militärbeamter and not a priest, because priest didn't wear suit coats. They wore a cassock. It doesn’t have lapels that you have to accommodate for. I suppose one photo of a priest wearing a frack medal bar would dispel this theory.

Brian; When I looked at the front and looked at the back and before I scrolled down to any comments I thought this was a good bar. Congrats. That's a keeper! Nice bar with a bulgarian award on it.

Ah-ah-ah. The GMIC photo contest is over. It was won by a sultry, boudoir photo of a uniform. I'll have to visit your facebook site.

This order in PARTICULAR lends itself as an excellent candidate for cleaning. With all its tiny, hand-painting it looks much better when it is clean and vibrant. Beau: I also suspect you were making the point that what looked like lightly tarnished silver, turned out to be GOLD. We want to be carefull with this parable...otherwise everyone will be breaking out their Tarnex to see if their patina medals are gold.

Hello Linas; What you have is a Ehrenlegon medal or better known as the "Flanders' Cross". It is a privately purchased cross, available after the war. Mainly used by Naval forces (and naval ground units) that served in WWI. Bars were available for the ribbon with different battles that the owner participated in. The medal was amoung the ones outlawed after 1934 and replaced with the standardized Hindenburg Cross for all veterans. Others likely have more details, perhaps how qualification was determined, the maker(s), number issued, etc.

Hello SPM; Thank you again for your assessment. And thank you for your advice. Until I can take some high-definition photos, I will include here a zoom in close-up of the bars from the original photo. The MAX show in October and the SOS in November!!! I don't believe I will be able to get away, . But Spring is possible. :cheers:

:Cat-Scratch:

Hello SPM; Thank you for your observations on this medal. I did not know that this was a private purchase piece. I knew that fakes of this medal are plentiful and that the bars are a special target of the forgers. I specifically mentioned the provenance to belie the possibility of this medal, the bars or the combination as being false. It was my understanding that the "high-quality" fake bars only just entered the marketplace in the last 20+ years. The collector that bought the medal in the 1970s had, over the years, re-directed his focus to WWI Allies and specifically the research of British groups. Undisturbed from his collection, he only just sold it again to my friend in the 1980s. An OMSA member and frequent show attendee, before his recent death, he would become well known on a British medal collector forum as a knowledgeable and helpful mentor to others looking to research their "trios" or other named medal groups from WWI or earlier. His funeral included pages of accolades and condolences printed from that website's thread. I know he purchased this medal as-is, however if the high-quality fakes were in the marketplace even in the 1970s, then I would believe that he could have been fooled. I would love to put the medal in your hands for your assessment. Perhaps if we meet at a show (again) I could bring it along for conversation purposes. :beer:

reverse

"800" mark

closer

I thought you might like to look at my EK2 "800" stamped.

medal reverse

back side

Greetings all; It has been awhile since I posted any militaria so I thought I would show you this. I recently received it from a good friend and fellow collector and was itself purchased from a good collector before him. It has a provenance that I can trace back to the early 1970's. The obverse has a nice bronze patina, but the reverse is a bright gold. Notice: In back, the different, mini ribbons used -odd.

from the photo it is hard to see, but... :love:

The last number strike on mint house for 3rd class is 338650? I didn't know this information was available. Could you please tell me the source? I was under the understanding that the regiments were given different numeric ranges for each class. Perhaps 338650 is the last 3rd class number for that regiment?

Doesn't anyone find that Hessen Order w/swords on the end a strange position for the combatant award?

1) become a member of GMIC. 2) establish a price you want for each item or lot together. 3) take multiple photos of the items. 4) list them with photos on the "The Sale Room" section near the bottom of the GMIC opening page. 5) Good luck!