Claudius

Collar insignia -left

Wait, wait, wait maybe a shell went off right next to him and blew his forearm off midway and....oh never mind, not enough blood to entertain that theory. It is, what it is. Even as a dismembered foreleg, I wouldn't mind having in my collection.

Excellent stuff! Thanks for the link. I ask because I have an unusual connection to your UC-22 log report....I have one of the log reports to UC-20!

Hello Bear; I came across this old thread. You mentioned "other documents" in this group. Can you tell me what those were? Do you have photos? Claudius

That's why most collectors display the reverses of certain medals. :lol:

Thank you all for your insights and complements.

or Victor Borge...

reverse

I think this ribbon bar belongs here. Must have been a proud Austrian and he made sure he applied for every commemorative medal from each of the former central power's countries (except Turkey of course.)

Hallo gro; From a source I accessed I was able to identify the medal and found this: "Montenegro, 1863 medal. As the Empire continued to struggle with rebellious local land barons and revolts of Christian subjects in the Balkans, Prince Danilo of Montenegro pushed for independence, and tried to expand the borders of his territory. Still a vassal state of the Empire, Montenegro was invaded by Turkish forces on a number of occasions, until Prince Danilo accepted a settlement granting Montenegro autonomy, but denying it the territorial gains he sought. After Danilo's assassination, his successor Nicholas Petrovic incited rebel groups in Herzegovina, who seized some villages near the Montenegrin border and massacred Muslims living there. The result was a punitive expedition by Turkish forces led by Omer Pasha, the Ottoman governor of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Western powers intervened to force a settlement, maintaining Montenegrin borders as they were drawn before the conflict began. The silver medal bears a crescent on the obverse, above which is the inscription "Relying on the Assistance of Almighty God, Abdulaziz Khan, Sovereign of the Ottoman Empire." (Note that the obverse of the medal is essentially the same as the center medallion of the Osmanie Order, which was created at approximately the same time.) The reverse of the medal shows the mountainous terrain of Montenegro, with a cannon in the foreground and a Turkish flag flying overhead. Below this image is a banner with the word "Karadag", or Montenegro, and the date 1279 (1863). The original ribbon color is believed to have been red with green borders, although it is possible that the Osmanie Order ribbon of green with red borders may have been used. The total number of these medals struck by the Ottoman Mint was about 30,000. " As for rarity...yes it's rare.

Fangs removed??? The recipient didn't like the extra holes in his suit?

Since the publishing of O'Connor's book ten years ago the first names of these six are still not known? I thought that maybe my list was obsolete and that other re-constructed lists have their full names. While the person can't be identified directly, I had hoped that the bar could be "attributed to".

Hallo Werner; I understand you point. But let's look at who we can take out. We know he isn't B?ning and their may be others that have other known awards. Next, he was likely serving in an Oldenburg unit due to also recieving the FA cross (two of the state awards and none others). He was alive in 1934. The bar is very will done and shows the pride of the owner and the maker but it doesn't have the "Vor Dem Feinde" clasp that was authorized on Sept 20th 1918. IMPORTANT: Your bar has a Berlin maker label. Can't we assume he was living in Berlin when the bar was made? There are period address books. Rank name unit award date Oberleutnant Richard Suhrkamp IR 91 18.9.17 Leutnant Franz Smits IR 161 18.9.17 Oberleutnant zur See Heino von Heimburg Krigshafen Kiel 7.10.17 Oberleutnant zur See Max Valentiener U-Flottille Flandern 27.12.17 Leutnant Eckert IR 91 17.1.18 Leutnant Georg R?ver IR 74 8.2.18 Leutnant Karl Giese IR 17 21.2.18 Leutnant Karl Arnold IR 115 (Hess) 23.4.18 Leutnant Plugradt IR 91 22.5.18 Leutnant Hess IR 91 22.5.18 Leutnant Schumann IR 91 22.5.18 Leutnant Weichardt IR 91 22.5.18 Oberleutnant Georg Ruhstrat FAR 58 14.7.18 Leutnant Reinhard Murken IR 79 14.7.18 Leutnant Walter B?ning Jasta 76b 21.8.18 Leutnant Becker IR 91 23.8.18 Leutnant Wilhelm Conze IR 91 23.8.18 Leutnant Max Bueschel IR 91 23.8.18 Leutnant Helmuth Gabriel IR 91 23.8.18 Leutnant Edward Gesell Pionier Komp 185 5.9.18 Leutnant Friederichsen FAR 17 18.9.18 Leutnant Siegfried Harms IR 86 (Schleswig-Holsteinisches) 30.9.18 Leutnant Ernst Peltner IR 91 6.10.18 Oberleutnant Ahlhorn IR 82 (2.Kurhessische) 16.10.18 Oberleutnant Fritz Helmuth IR 91 24.10.18 Leutnant Lueder IR 91 8.11.18 Leutnant Stotz IR 91 8.11.18 Oberleutnant Ziegler (aka Stege) IR 91 8.11.18 Leutnant Carstens IR 91 8.11.18 Leutnant Wegmann FAR 62 27.1.19 Leutnant Thien FAR 62 27.1.19 Leutnant von Essen FAR 62 27.1.19

Ahhhh...you're right. Jumped too quickly.

Yes, very interesting. Can we assume a proud native Oldenburger because with the position of the Oldenburg ribbon after the EKII but before the KVK and the Sachsen on the other side?

Without Crown -WOW. At the risk of mentioning something everyone knows, depending on the source, the House and Merit Order of Duke Peter Friedrich Ludwig 2nd Class w/ Sword and Crown was awarded 247 times between 1839-1918. The DPFL 2nd Class w/Swords (no crown) was awarded only 39 times. The recipients are (mostly) known and this bar is perhaps attributable, through deduction???? Who was still alive in 1934. Who didn't get any other state award. etc.

Is that a Peter House order w/S I see???? I really like those. With or without crown? With crown it's without crown it's Either way I can't wait 80 years! :cheeky:

Is this thing for real???? (Sorry I ask Jeff, but this bar soooo nice. It's the proverbial "too good to be true"). I'm not asking for the name, just asking if a name be found that would match up to this bar??? Thank you

OK! Now that makes sense. I have a 3-medal bar; Bav. 3rd Klass MVK mS mK, EKII, 1911 Luitpold Jubilee Medal (on the reverse the 1905 date, shield, on red ribbon w/green edges). What was perplexing was that it is suppose to be owned by guy born in 1891. That would make him 14 in 1905. Couldn't of earn it unless he was royalty -he was not. But 1911 as a 20 year old, presumably in the service -OK.

I don't think this is Hermann. For one thing, wrong uniform. http://www.acepilots.com/wwi/ger_goering.html

I agree. And I don't like his other badge either.

Take us to school... For the benefit of the rest of us; In quantifiable terms, could you tell us what you quickly saw about the KO4 w/swords that made it easy to identify as counterfeit? Thank you,

Also books: The Japanese Siege of Tsingtau by Charles B. Burdick Published by Archon Books 1976 The German Prisoners-of-war in Japan 1914-1920 by Charles Burdick and Ursula Moessner Published by University Press of America 1984 (anyone who knows my interests must have known I was going to chime in somewhere on this thread )

"snippet"!??? There's more? Nice collection Steve. I especially like the little prinzen size naval badges you have. but then again, I really have naval badges on my mind right now. Claudius