Stogieman

It's not the same badge as the one in the signed photo. LOOK at the points of comparison.

Well, I'm sure Les does (give a darn)..... I'm sure he purchased what he felt was a complete group and paid/was charged accordingly....... I will leave you with one brutally point blank observation. No matter what angle you take the picture from, the precise number and style of bands at the bottom of the crown will not change...... They don't match. The photo has 4 "rings"..... the badge has 3. OK, I lied...... two brutally honest observations. Look at the tip of the left wing (as facing the badge) If you can honestly look at these 2 wing tips, look me in the eye and say they are identical.......................... then I will go away and trouble you no more.......

And BTW, I'm not disputing your photo, I'm only asking the logical diagnostic questions........ However, this does not change the fact that that badge in the photo, is not the badge in your hand.

For God's sake Les........ look at the crown inserts and bands. It's not the badge in the photo. Sorry.

Les, take a deep breath........... you can move that badge any way you want, look at it from any angle you want and the they will not match. Look at the letters! Look at the shape of the crown. Look at the wings. It's not the same badge.........

Now, also........ shape of wreath shape of crown shape of shield neck of eagle Now, keep in mind this should be tempered with the fact it's still the ONLY photo I have ever seen.......... is the photo/uniform legit? I will leave others to authenticate that. But this badge with the group is not the one in the photo and I would even venture one step beyond and say it was not made by Zimbler.........

OK, here's a comparison photo. it's pretty big. There's additional details, but this should be enough. Sorry Les....... thisis one of the "things" that helps me to define what to buy. I'm really good with photo recognition and keys... probably should have worked for Uncle Sam....

Oh yeah, bottom line........ if someone sold you this group insisting that the badge is the one in the photo............. not a chance.

The badge in the photograph is not the badge you have with the group. before everybody goes nuts, take a deep breath.... then start going over the badge with the photograph. Emphasis on the lettering on the shield, the shape of the wing tips, shape of the tail, etc., etc., etc. Sorry, that should do to start but if you study the enlargement carefully, you'll see what I mean.... First clue.. again with the rivets. Now I will say, the photograph is astounding and I'd like to know if it glows..... Quick observations on the photo: Hungarian style tunic, but Austrian collar tabs. Balloon insignia, but a pilot (flying) badge? I'm not a uniform guy, but that's a quick once over. Study the enlargement and the badge carefully. They are most assuredly not the same piece. This is a touchy one, I have no desire to share with potential fakers and at some point we should pool our collected thoughts/examples and get an article on the (soon to be) companion website to this forum. let me know when everyone has the pix and I'll yank them if Les cannot. I'll be in and out tonight.

OK, I need a "Virtual Cigarette" please..........

UM, does yours have the "ring", or the standard wide loop?

I think having to make a cell-phone call to Germany to place an order for an item listed for public sale on a web-site borders into the "extreme". If Herr Thies cannot be bothered to sell me catalogues, past or present, then obviously he is not interested in my money. A shame as in reviewing the prices on-line there's no shortage of pieces I would have cheerfully paid more for. A loss for his consignors and for him. But such is the way of business for some people. So be it.

And frankly, I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong! ;>) It opens up a whole new realm of pieces to chase after...

There are no references that I am aware of that document this badge. That is what I base my opinion(s) on. if Les' photograph is authentic, it will make exactly One (1) period photo of this badge that I am aware of.

Hallo Gunther, I don't think it matters pre-/post-1918... cases were the same.

The problem is that fakes and fantasy pieces of these have been made for so long, they are now circulating and look "old". The badges with the banner below the crown are pure fantasy, but I believe Chaliff pictured one, hence the acceptance. The "General Flying" Badge has probably a half dozen different makers from 1918-1945.... all different variations. I have one right now on the Sales Forum with impressive quality, but for sure made in Austria 1935-45. I think makers very much over-estimated the need for that badge! The Zimbler pieces I have handled in person all bore very distinct rivets, big and flush with the frame and a distinct maker mark that has been copied extensively, but they never seemed to get it quite right. Same with the clips on the back. They come so very close... I think Austrian Badges have probably been more extensively faked than even the German ones! One is really rlling the dice considering one of these sitting on a table somewhere. I wouldn't touch one I wasn't 100% absolute on.

Welcome and very interesting documents!!

The Caribbean sounds perfect. Sign me up!

I did wonder about that, but have never asked the question before this. The screw-post is silver as well as the badge?

I didn't think it was a lot.... I'll buy every one you guys have for that! You shouldn't have canceled your bid John, this one would have been perfect for what you need. I was busy shoveling.......... 24" of snow today!

I'd have to agree, that sure looks like an ORB Shadow....

And that is the classic Juncker case, correct for any of their Private-Purchase Badges. One just sold today in france for $600. !! (only the case!)

Look at post number 10 Initial "K" One Crown

Nice close-ups on the devices. only the 3rd or 4th of the oakleaves on a ribbon bar I've ever seen.

Nice RAO.... Rick R's hoping to find one for under a C-Note ;>) I laugh every time I think of that!