Graf

Welcome

Hi Ilieff, I share your concern, however the fakers can use other sources to do their sinister work. Few years ago when i started the topic about the fake Bulgarian Orders and decorations, I did think that this would be a good way to protect he collectors from those fakers. However, I was also aware that those fakers will use the forum to "improve" their work Unfortunately we can not avoid this Also i have my concerns that the information from this forum could be abused

2nd Class box King Boris Period - 1937 Emission Box 255 mm long 112 mm wide 33 mm high

Welcome

New World Well done

I agree Also the fact that he got it for actions during the last phase of WW2 ..The republican emission is the most likely one

Konigliche Muenzamt Stuttgart.

Box for 2nd Class for ladies King Ferdinand period 1908-1918 Box 107 mm long 105 mm wide 22mm high

Most of the were private

Very nice item Igor Congrats

Box for 5th Class without a crown from Prince Ferdinand Period Estimate 1900 1908 Made by Rothe Vienna Box 103 mm long 60 mm wide 18 mm high Box for 5th Class Knight with crown Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908 Box 112 mm long 65 mm wide 20mm high No maker mark on the lid inside

Box for 3rd Class Commander From Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908 Box !55 mm long 80 mm wide 30 mm high Note the "small roof" edge on the lid

Nice photos

BTW The 1st Class box listed by Bretzen is from the same Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908

4th Class box -Officer Class Prince Ferdinand period 1891-1908 Box 130 mm long 65 wide 20 mm high Note the "small roof" on the lid mentioned by New World This features appear in all boxes from the 1st Prince Ferdinand issue 1891-1908 period Note this "small roof " features even on the 1st Issue of the Order of Military merit "with Glass " enamel

Yes I have some of them as well. It will be nice to show the Decoration (optional) inside as well ..from the relevant period. I have seen few examples when the decoration did not match the box 6th Class box estimate period 1891 till 1901 Box 130 mm long 65 wide 20 mm high

Interesting print of Prince Ferdinand with Russian uniform and Grand Cross Star of LOH

Hi Illieff, Uwe question was about this "mysterious" mark featuring on the exact spot above the letter "I' on all classes That made me to look in more details and i came to the conclusion that this is the letter "I kratko" which is after the Letter "I" in the Bulgarian Alphabet This mark, which is more like a "coma" is used above the letter "I kratko", a letter pronounced differently from the letter "I" Therefore this mark is not a manufacturing defect Perhaps i should have not given an example using the German letters. It cause some confusion The other interesting fact is the use of the old Bulgarian in the text I suspect that for both 2nd and 3rd Classes a bronze silvered or gilded was used The other interesting fact is that in the Documents listed by Uwe and myself the cross is written as "Gold" instead of the appropriate Class I assume the "Gold" was referred to the 1st Class. This cross was given to all senior and junior staff officers from garrisons where Prince Ferdinand had passed through Also to some dignities that has escorted him during this trip. Therefore Uwe"s Document is for an adviser, who escorted the New Prince Interesting fact that Denkov in his book stated that the 1st Class is also made from base metal,while actually it was made from gilded silver and hall marked. I recently came across of 3rd Class that was "upgraded" to 1st Class by painting the relevant parts. Luckily very bad job, and also the cross was not hall marked.. However can trick novices collectors I have never seen 2nd and 3rd Classes with 5 clovers, however since in some books it was mention that there is a model with 5 clovers till now i assumed that such issue might have existed Only late prof. Pavlov stated that only 1st Class had the 5 clover model Regards Graf

Hi Uwe, Very interesting Questions First Only the Firm of K F Rothe Vienna is known to be the maker of those Crosses Second I searched the literature and late prof Pavlov mention that 1st Class was known to have two variants Although he have not stated the same for the other two classes it is important to research further. I have both 2nd and 3rrd Class with 4 clovers only as well I think I solved the mystery of the mark on the back medallion This is a mark wcih is put above the Bulgarian letter "I' and the letter is pronounced as "I kratko" That is why it appear on all crosses on the back. The word is written in old Bulgarian with this letter on the back. I am sorry I do not have Cyrilic on my PC I hope Iliev can do for me to become more clear One is for sure for me this is not a defect mark. I checked the Bulgarian Alphabet This is a sign similar to the German "U mlau" if I am correct

Here is the House Order of Saxony I think the design of the central medallion on the reverse of the Ferdinand Cross was "borrowed" from this Order It has 5 clovers on the reverse Do you know any models or variations with 4 clovers. This might bring a light on the topic Marks on the ring of 1st Class

Hi Uwe, Yes I have two 1st Classes both marked with the same marks like yours Both have the same small defect on the reverse central medallion like yours One has 5 clovers the other has 4 clovers on the Coat of arms of Saxony The one with 4 clovers is considered to be second type Why the number of clovers was reduced is a mystery I assume the matrix might had been damages damaged and the new one was made with 4 clovers Here is the second type with four clovers on the reverse central medallion You can see the small defect as well The other 1st Class is exactly like yours (the one in the group photo with the Document) PS Only the 1st Class is marked The other two classes were made from base metal (gilded or silvered)

I am OK with the listing

I agree

Very interesting Thanks

I agree they could have been easy targets