dond

These bars deserve their own thread.

Here is another interesting foto recently sold on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Orig-Foto-Potrait-3-Sleeve-Badge-MG-Gunner-EK-2-kettwig-Essen-26-10-1919-/272933002311?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=EsJDt68huhWDFwSVKBL9cdeaATw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Interesting. I've seen tankers with it (the MGSSA badge) as well. I think they must have found some utility in sending other folks to the course.

Several Divisions had these. A nice way to recognize a soldier and encourage others as well.

Perhaps they knew each other.

If there was a medal in the last position it must have been approx 42-44 mm in height. There is a bump under the ribbon as indicated in this photo.

We need a good book on paper docs.

Congrats on the pick up. Nice finds for sure.

Nice set Scott.

Very nice.

What the original source is? Who knows. It is in several books but where it comes from..... To me it doesn't make sense.

I'm betting the initial order for 100 badges was for issue to Reichsheer troops. Why else would an officer order 100 badges? As it was a private purchase piece for those no longer serving I would expect they would have to order one from a local jeweler who would then order one from a manufacturer (unless they were a Berliner in which case they went down and bought one fro a local supplier, Juncker/Meybauer/AWS etc...)

WRT the whole "100" badges issue, here is something I researched a while back: " I have found more info on the German Tank Detachments. Three new books published by Tankograd have come out that directly relate to this thread: #1001 Sturmpanzer A7V, #1003 Beute-Tanks Vol1, and #1004 Beute-Tanks Vol 2. Besides extensive pictures of tanks in service with the German Army in WW1 they also have fairly complete records of the combat actions down to which tanks were in which battles on any given day. I hope to use this information to show that the collector myth of” 99 personnel were eligible for the Kampfwagonabzeichen” is just that, a myth. >>Abts 1-4 were equipped with the German produced A7Vs which had a nominal crew of 18 personnel but in fact usually numbered 21. Each Abteilung (Abt) had 5 tanks for a total of 20 A7Vs. This gives us an initial manpower pool of 90-105 personnel per Abt or 360-420 total pax that could ride into battle in the A7V fleet. >>ABTs 11-16 were equipped with captured British MK IV/V tanks. The Beute Tank Abts each had 5 tanks, each with a 12 man crew, 60 pax per Abt, or 360 pax total able to ride into battle at a given time. >>The key to understanding the statistics is this, don’t count the tanks, count the crews. This is especially true with the Beute Tanks. If a tank broke down or was destroyed/lost/abandoned etc… crews would maneuver back to friendly lines and get a new tank assigned to them. Crews from broken tanks could be parceled out to fill the crews of tanks going into battle. As you will see, the crews of the senior Abts would participate in more actions then subsequent tank crews formed later. >>For this reason Abt 1and Abt 11 have the most crews that could have received the tank badge. Abt 1 has 3 tanks that fought in 4 battles with two fighting in just 2 battles (21x3=63). Abt 11 has 3 (possibly 4) tanks that fought in three or more engagements (3(4)x12=36(48)). In just these two Abts we have a minimum of 99 pax who theoretically could have earned the tank badge. If only it was so easy.>>The following is a roll up of engagements by Abt:>>Abt 2 has 2 tanks with 3 or more assaults (2x21=42). >>Abt 3 has 1 tank with 3 engagements (1x21=21)>>Abt 4 has 2 tanks with 3 or more assaults (2x21=42). >>Abt 12 has 3 tanks with 3 or more assaults (3x12=36).>>Abt 13 has 4 with 3 assaults (4x12=48).>>Abt 14 has 4 with 3 assaults (4x12=48).>>Abts 15-16 have none that qualified.>>It is not surprising that the Beute tank crews outnumber the A7V crews since there were more captured tanks available for service. Immobilized Beute tank crews would be re-equipped much quicker than the A7V crews could ever be. Still, in a perfect world, according to the stats above 348 personnel would be qualified for the badge under the three engagement rule. But the qualification rules also had another way to earn the badge, you merely had to get wounded during an assault. In the Beute tanks alone, 130 personnel qualified this way. There were no figures for the A7Vs as a whole though several officers were mentioned as being wounded. Even given the losses due to sickness, men rotating out to other units, death occurring after the end of the war and prior to the institution of the badge I cannot understand where this “99 award” myth comes from. The other part of the myth is that an officer placed an order for “100 badges.” Why? This was a Commemorative badge and as such was to be a private purchase. So why then would an officer place this order? >>Here is my theory. Remember that 90-105 Abt manpower figure above? I believe that the German Army kept in its ranks a nucleus of tank veterans. These men were to preserve this capability for the new Weimar Army. Having been on the receiving end of massed tank assaults the Germans were more aware of the potential capabilities than the Allies at that time. I believe these men received their badges from the Army since they were on active duty. The Germans hid a number of banned capabilities using secret rosters and innocent sounding organizational structures so why not this one as well? Unfortunately any records of this were probably in the archives in Potsdam and were blown/burnt to ash in an air raid during WW2. So, old collector myth out, new collector myth in.>>>>Or maybe they just issued them to the wounded guys that were still alive, who knows.>>

Another good write up.

Well it was the early post war era when they were still trying to convince everyone that they were not defeated in the field......

It is a commemorative badge but also, I think that having been on the receiving end of massed tank attacks it also was a nod to tankers as a potentially elite arm. The German High Command totally missed the boat when it came to the value of tanks during WW1. I think as they were writing up their assessments after the war they realized this. Then it became logical to recognize the German tank crews as pioneers in their field. They couldn't recognize the British after all.

Which cheek?

They are a great forum for discussing daggers but lag behind others when it comes to badges etc....

GDC would be the last forum I'd go to. WAF has several good threads on these.

I believe this is a Morgi copy based upon the reverse set up.

Very nice.

While they are at it they should review the Silver Stars that are routinely handed out to Battalion Commanders for just showing up in country.

The crown is absolutely horrible and the details on the rest of it is sloppy. Not something that I would expect to see from a European jeweler.

Approx $1500