Just examining and discussing Robin. No need to take offense. I'm not convinced either way at the moment. One thing this thread has shown is that their is a wide variety with these. Much like the black skull that started this thread, one has to look at everything. As you know, I've held the two "known originals" posted in this thread. Given that they are constructed differently they are the left and right limits to me. Its what is in between that we should look for. Besides "gut feeling" I think we could establish some characteristics.