Dave Wilkinson

A very nice Coat of Arms! It's a great pity that the Chief Constable/Police Authority did not have sufficient pride and spirit of independence to produce a decent cap badge to display their achievement. Too late now.................

As a collector of police insignia, the Scottish Police have always been a great disappointment to me. The adoption of the "national" badge many years ago I feel was the start of a downward spiral of local identity loss and although individual force names (albeit regionalised) were retained there always seemed a lot of "sameness" about them. That is a collectors view and in no way detracts from the professional service which the individual forces provided to their communities, which at the end of the day is all important. Spending large sums of money on introducing a new corporate image etc is not in my view a good start. Your average man or woman in the street does not give a jot about the wording on a police vehicle or the sign above the door of a police station, He or she simply wants a professional response from the police when they need it, and I'm sure that in Scotland that will continue. Despite the views of the new Scottish Chief Constable (Stephen House), I doubt very much if the national structure is likely to see the light of day south of the border in England. In quite recent years Cumbria and Lancashire Constabularies went to the Government saying that they wished to amalgamate and presented a blueprint with costings to facilitate the merger. To great surprise it was not approved! Wales I personally feel, (with its own Parliament) could follow the Scottish lead. We will have to wait and see.

No, you are wrong in your assumption. The following is taken from the book "Maintaining The Queen's Peace", (a History of the Birkenhead Borough Police) by S.P. Thompson, published in 1958 by the Birkenhead Watch Committee. " APPOINTMENT OF COMMISSIONERS. In 1832 there was violent opposition to an application to Parliament for an Act to supply a public market and to establish police in Birkenhead. Despite this opposition the Act received Royal Assent on 10th June 1833............................The Commissioners proceeded to carry out the provisions of the Act and a Police Force was appointed. The Act continued in force until the incorporation of the townships of Birkenhead, Claughton, Tranmere, part of Higher Bebbington and Oxton into the Parliamentary Borough of Birkenhead on 13th August 1877". So, the Birkenhead Borough Police was formed in 1833. The Cheshire Constabulary were formed on 20th April 1857. An earlier Act dated 1st June 1829, allowed the Cheshire Justices to appoint "Special" High Constables and "Assistant" Petty Constables and to pay them. However, this did not constitute the formation of the Cheshire Constabulary (taken from the book "To the Best of Our Skill & Knowledge", a History of the Cheshire Constabulary, and published by the force). Cheshire Constabulary policed Birkenhead for the first time following the amalgamation of the Borough Police on 30th January 1967. I hope this makes the situation a little clearer for those interested individuals.

Brian, The additional points which you mention are well made. The "Chief Officer" badges are easily identifiable in that they are usually marked "sterling" on the reverse or are actually hallmarked and because they are silver and prone to tarnishing they tend to appear "dull" when placed alongside a chrome plated (Inspectorate ranks) version. Such badges were commonly issued to ranks above Chief Inspector in many English & Welsh forces but the high cost has in most cases resulted in the expensive silver badges being replaced with the much cheaper silver plated or chrome plated versions of the same design. Alas, a sign of changing times! Dave.

He obviously has quite a bit of time on his hands then!

Brian, I've been looking back through your postings in respect of Staffordshire Police and came across this one which is not altogether accurate. What you have is not the Chief Constable's cap badge but a warrant badge which is issued to every officer in Staffordshire Police. The badge is affixed to the leather warrant card holder. The green & blue "enamelling" is in fact plastic. If you look at my attached photo you will see the warrant badge (which you have) on the right hand side. On the left hand side you will see the "ACPO" (Chief Officer) ranks cap badge. This is in sterling silver with hard fired enamelling and a felt backing to the Staffs. knott. This particular badge was given to me by a Staffordshire Police Assistant Chief Constable who I was fortunate to meet when on a course at the Staff College in 1989. This is the badge being worn by Chief Constable Kelly whose photo you append in another of your postings. I hope this clarifies things for you and others who may have mistaken the warrant badge for a senior officers' cap badge. Dave.

A timely warning to those interested collectors who may see similar UK police items being offered for sale on a well known internet auction site, the seller being based in Bulgaria. Be very careful about touching any apparently genuine UK police badges being sold (He also offers military badges) . They are almost certainly Bulgarian made recent reproductions. The seller has his feedback configured in such a way that "buyers" cannot be identified. I've always regarded (a personal opinion) this as a very suspicious tactic. Forewarned is forearmed!! Dave.

Mervyn, I appreciate the points you make. However, I have photos of Liverpool City wearing top hats and carrying rattles and similar with whistle chains showing but no sign of a cross belt. I think the cross belt theory may have been an assumption made by someone way back in the mists of time and as with many such assumptions with the passage of years they tend to become cast in cement. The shape of the whistle may have been a whim of the CC, perhaps a simple explanation was that the "lipped" version was more expensive. Whatever the explanation, the purchase and issue of this unusual shape persisted for a great many years with the "lipped" version making its appearance with Liverpool Police just after the first war. Even then the "oddity" was not withdrawn and I can recall occasionally seeing them on the end of a chrome chain still being worn by older Liverpool bobbies in the early 1970's. They are certainly very common and thousands upon thousands of them must have been issued. On most days if you do a search on that famous on line auction site you can usually find two or three for sale. Best wishes, Dave.

Mervyn, I've collected police insignia, photographs and memorabilia from my home City of Liverpool since the early 1960's and have never seen any evidence that Liverpool City Police Officers wore a crossbelt with the whistle pushed into a holder on the belt. Photographs (and I have a very large number) indicate that whistles were worn normally in the tunic or greatcoat pocket as with other forces. The only crossbelts were worn by the Mounted Dept. when wearing their ceremonial uniform and even then the whistle was worn with the chain exposed and the instrument itself placed in the pocket of the stand collar tunic. Why Liverpool issued this type of whistle is something of a mystery. I often wonder where these myths originate! Best wishes, Dave.

Monty, I've sent you a PM. Dave.

Monty, If all else fails I have a nearly new signed copy of Mr. Mitton's book which is surplus to my requirements. Best wishes, Dave.

Monty, You can discount South Wales. South Wales Police was formed on 1st June 1969. Posting a copy of the photo may assist. Dave.

The photos of Sir Colin which you have attached are helpful and I think I may be able to take this forward a little further for you. I think that the tunic you have is probably one which once belonged to Sir Colin. However, I don't think it was used by him whilst he was in the Met. Police. I think that he had this tunic made when he was appointed Commandant of the Police Staff College, Bramshill. The Commandant was at that time also an HMIC. He would have worn the uniform of an English Chief Constable with the addition of the "HMI" monogram between the Crown and wreath. You may find traces of these having been removed. Now, why do I say that the jacket may be from this period? Well, the town of Aldershot where the tailor is from is not far from Hartley Witney where the College is situated. Anyway, that's my theory. He probably took the jacket one of perhaps several) with him to Australia and wore it there for a time. I hope this is helpful. Best wishes, Dave.

I think it unlikely that this uniform would have been worn in Australia as I feel certain that the colour of the cloth differs and also I think the rank insignia. Another matter springs to mind and that concerns shoulder patches. Someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong but I think that all the Aussie forces wear shoulder patches (all ranks). I hope this is helpful. Dave.

"Commissioner" ranks in the Metropolitan Police have blue cushioning to the rank Crown and have done for a great many years. The colouring upon the Crowns of other items of insignia used by police in England & Wales is normally (but not always) red. The tunic suggests use by an English/Welsh Chief Constable. NOT an HMI. If worn by an HMI then there would be a monogrammed "HMI" positioned between the Crown and the wreath . I'm unsure of the relevance of the Queen's Police Medal being mentioned or the year 1980. Dave.

Police Officers from the UK home police forces were seconded as volunteers for service with the Cyprus Colonial Police Force during the conflict and were usually promoted by one rank for the duration of the secondment. In other words a UK seconded Constable would serve as a Sergeant with the Cyprus Police and would revert to his previous rank on return to the UK.. The seconded officers were awarded the General Service Medal with Cyprus bar. As far as I'm aware all the seconded officers were from the UK. Your medal was in all probability awarded to a UK police officer. I hope this is helpful. Dave..

If it is on the collar of a tunic jacket it probably indicates "Hampshire Constabulary". Dave.

Brian, I appreciate that this thread is VERY old, but I have only just happened upon it. Your photograph of of a member of the Lancashire Constabulary. The "old" County Arms are depicted upon the belt plate. The supporters on the arms are (unusually) two dogs. The first aid badge on his arm reads "Lancashire Constabulary". I hope that eventually getting an answer to your long ago posed question was worth the wait! Best wishes, Dave.

I don't know what planet Mervyn is on, its CHRISTIE!!!! Dave.

Mervyn, I hope you will forgive my correcting you. The Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner and Assistant Commissioners are no longer Justices of the Peace. The Administration of Justice Act 1973 which became law on the 1st April 1974, amended the Metropolitan Police Act and removed the JP appointment from them. Also, tokens/passes (of whatever type of metal) are no longer issued. The Commissioner now has a warrant card (signed by himself) which is fitted into a red satin lined black leather wallet. The wallet has inside it a silver and enamel representation of the Metpol. Coat of Arms. This same style wallet is carried by all ranks above and including Commander. No other identification is carried. The law relating to the Met. Police has changed considerably in the last 30 plus years. The force is now overviewed by a Police Committee (not the Home Secretary) in much the same way as the County Police forces of England & Wales. I hope this information is helpful. Best wishes, Dave.

The final sentence should read "An excellent example of the Victorian helmet plate NOT being replaced immediately following her death." Dave.

Gents, I've attached above a photo of a Metpol. helmet plate issued to a reserve Constable. It can been seen that the "O" is in fact a divisional letter as opposed to a figure "0". The syle and size of both the figure and letter differs. As an aside, this sealed pattern of helmet plate was approved for issue by Commissioner Henry on 2nd November 1906. Obviously, by the time they had been manufactured and issued I suspect that it would have been well into 1908 before they appeared throughout the MPD. An excellent example of the Victorian helmet plate NOT being issued immediately following her death. Dave.

Steve, I'm ex. Liverpool Parks Police, Merseyside Police and finally Port of Dover Police Best wishes, Dave.

Steve, I would guss that the photo would date from the 1st war and he obviously saw duty at the Coronation. If you go on to the Metpol. website there is a section on history with (I think) details of where to direct enquiries about service records etc. Failing that try "googling" "Friends of the Met. Police Museum". that should point you in the right direction. Best of luck. Dave.