Dave Wilkinson

There were several thousand produced and I stand to be corrected, but believe that those officers serving at the time were all provided with a copy. I have seen several over the last few years. Dave.

Martin, Personnel records for police forces in Lancashire (except Greater Manchester and Merseyside) are held at the Lancashire County Record Office at Preston. That said, they are not complete and none exist for several of the former Borough Forces. Insofar as "court" staff is concerned, until quite recently courts were administered locally by Magistrates Courts Committees. They are now administered directly by the Ministry of Justice. Details of the current courts in Lancashire are available on the web. Regarding George BRAGG. He would receive a defence medal if he served in the police during WW2. He would not receive any police medals unless he was still serving in the early 1950's when the Police Long Service & Good Conduct Medal was introduced nationally. He would get one of these if he had served 22 years and his conduct during that period had been "good". If he served within the Borough of Blackpool he would have been a member of the Borough Police for that town. That said, he may have been a member of the Lancashire Constabulary, serving outside the town but in the Blackpool area. Dave.

I think you will find that John Ireland & Son of Dublin were retailers rather than manufacturers. It is important to bear this in mind when finding their name on an item of equipment or item of uniform. The first issue helmets (and the plates) were almost certainly made in England for John Ireland and retailed to the Irish Government bearing the name of the retailer as opposed to the manufacturer. This was (and often still is) the case with orders being sub contracted out by one company to another but with the retailers name appearing as opposed to the actual maker. Dave.

It would be helpful if you were to indicate which city/town you are referring to. Riots were quite frequent in the UK during and before Victoria's reign (and indeed since). I know of at least three such events in different parts of the UK which occurred on a Sunday and were later referred to as "Bloody Sunday". Dave

These badges were apparently made in two sizes. One for a helmet/shako and the other for a cap ? I have never been able to find out which Colony they are from. That said, I have found that the prefix "HM" tended/tends to be used in the Caribbean Islands as opposed to the other territories who tend to use simply Prison Service prefixed by the name of the territory. See the two examples which I have in my collection. I suspect that they were somewhat "generic" being used by more than one Colony/Territory. Dave.

Well, eBay is where you will find it. The forum is a good place to get information but its unlikely that you will find anything via this medium Dave.

Have a look at eBay. That's your best bet. No end of items are on there which fall into your collecting interests. In addition to sellers in the UK there are several in Australia which will keep your mailing costs down. Dave.

Graeme, A very strange way of awarding a medal! Simply go to the stores, ask for one and they give you one (or two)!! Ah, but that is Trinidad & Tobago for you..... Dave.

Trinidad & Tobago became a Republic in 1976 and the police would at that time ceased to be eligible for the award of the Colonial Police Medal. The British Crown was removed from police badges at that time and I suspect that this coincided with the "Republic" versions of various long service medals being introduced. Its interesting to see that they have retained the original Colonial Police medal ribbon on the new medal, that is assuming that the ribbon on the new medal is correct and not one simply "put on". Trying to confirm that with the authorities in Trinidad will be something of a "chore" if my own experience of trying to get information out of the is anything to go by! Dave.

With respect, not wishing to burst your bubble but it looks identical to the two I have which are brass. They are, considering Edward's short reign, surprisingly common. I don't know how many Prison Officers were employed in 1935/6 but judging by the number of these badges which are about I would guess that they must have had a good few hundred supplied. Dave.

Try an enquiry with the National Archives at Kew, London. The original paperwork for the award of the medal starting with the written recommendation from the Trinidad Police Commissioner through to the Governor of Trinidad and on to the Colonial Office should, in theory still be held at Kew. That paperwork should give full details of his service up to the time of the award recommendation. Insofar as the authorities in Trinidad are concerned, I would tend to agree that any attempt at dealing with them is like trying to knit fog. I contacted them several years ago on the subject of the badges which they had used in the past and was equally frustrated by their inability to assist me. I hope this is helpful. Dave.

Mervyn, Thank you for your kind comments (and also to Mike). Yes, Vic Wilkinson has had sight of them. Vic has many Metpol. items I don't have and vice versa, so its swings and roundabouts. Dave.

Mike, I was not going to attach any photos but you did ask! Dave.

Mike, See the attached photos. The "unnamed" QVC badge is purportedly from the Commissioner's horse furniture but I've been unable to confirm this either way. There are, as you can see, two different patterns of the "named" QVC badge. Alas, the EVIIR version is a poor example. The final photo shows a representative grouping of QVC helmet plates etc as worn in the Metropolis itself (not the Dockyards or River). Dave.

Your informant is incorrect. The Metpol. have produced the full range of horse breast badges from VR to the present day, all showing the words "Metropolitan Police". The Metpol. Mounted Branch ay Imber Court have a small museum which has exhibited a short lived EVIIIR version. This particular version is the only one which I am missing from my collection. The brass coloured item which you show is a generic military horse breast badge. I hope this is helpful. Dave.

If this worries you to the great extent that it appears to, then I would suggest that you (or someone on your behalf) make a Freedom of Information request posing a number of questions, the answers of which, if provided, will enable you to satisfy yourself one way or the other. As an aside, the Commissioner carries the "can" for any departure from the norm as it is he who certifies that the criteria and terms of the Royal Warrant (as amended) is fulfilled.. This is notwithstanding the fact that he relies on information (in paper form) which is placed in front of him. Dave.

You need to understand the process which takes place which eventually results in the Royal Mint "issuing" (if that is the correct word) a Police Long Service & Good Conduct Medal. That process starts with a Certificate being signed by the Commissioner/Chief Constable confirming that the Officer concerned has completed the required period of service and that during that period his/her conduct has been exemplary. The certificate is then then forwarded to the relevant Secretary of State who authorises the Royal Mint to provide the medal. The named medal is then sent to the authorising Secretary of State who completes a Certificate and then sends this, together with the named medal to the requesting police force who will then arrange its presentation. If there have been errors then those errors have been made by the respective police forces. I would suggest that the intimation that the fault lays with the Royal Mint and its staff is spurious, to say the least. Dave

The photo indicates that your band does NOT appear originate from the City of London. I say that because the buckle seems to be white metal. If the band originates from the City of London the buckle would be brass. It is something of a misnomer to suggest that the City of London Police were the only force to wear red and white duty bands. They were worn (until the 1970's) in Jersey and by the former Hove Borough Police (1858-1943) to name just two. There were probably quite a few others. Dave. The unpublished manuscript "The History of Metropolitan Police Uniforms & Equipment" by Wilkinson & Fairfax says:- "Armlets - Sergeants and constables 1886. Issued with new pattern of alternate blue and white stripes of equal length". I hope this is helpful. Dave.

A fantastic series of events and outstanding gallantry. I'm sure that there is some further research you could do in respect of the Officers involved. I feel sure that STEVENSON would have received some further award(s) apart from those which you have and which he would have received anyway irrespective of this incident. If you go to the Liverpool Record Office in William Brown Street and look at the Liverpool Watch Committee minutes for the period I am sure that more will be revealed. Archive copies of the Liverpool Echo would also be worth searching. The list of things you can do to put some further "meat" on this excellent group is endless. I would have had no hesitation in buying these medals and I think you did the right thing in doing so. Additional research would certainly add value without a doubt. I for one would be interested in hearing how you get on with that. Thanks for sharing. Best wishes, Dave Wilkinson

Very interesting. But, firstly who was the recipient of the medals and secondly what is the concluding part of the story? Dave.

The emblem in the centre is military in origin. It is NOT not Dublin Police, Royal Irish Constabulary or any other Irish Police force. Dave.

Mervyn, The Riot Act of 1714 was repealed in 1967. The Riot Damages Act 1886 is still in force. The offence of "Riot" itself is now set out in Section 1 of the Public Order Act 1986. There is no longer a requirement for a public announcement or warning to be made or given. Yes, in the event of a riot (the fact that persons are charged with the offence is sufficient) then any claims for damage must be considered by the Police and Crime Commissioner for the police area. Essentially, they have simply dropped the requirement to "read" the Act. Best wishes, Dave.

The term "Custodian" is a trade marked name used by C.W. Headdress Ltd. I agree that it appears to have been adopted by many individuals to describe a police helmet irrespective of its age. However, that in my view is quite wrong. The Wikipedia page which talks about police helmets is incorrect in a number of respects, this being one of them. Re-enforced "public order" police helmets began to appear in the late 1970's but I think that C.W. Headdress began using that name in the 1980's. With regard to the term being used by the police service generally, I think that is understandable in that most if not all helmets currently being worn are the re-enforced "plastic" type the majority being made by C.W. Headdress who appear to have the market share of supplying forces. Dave.

Mervyn, Although the Riot Act itself was repealed in 1967, the offence of "riot" still exists as an offence in the UK. Whilst you probably took part in a "riot" prosecution, it was most certainly not the last. In the summer of 1981 serious rioting took place in Liverpool and in other large mainland UK cities. Prosecutions for riot look place then (I was involved in one such case whilst a Merseyside Police Officer) and have almost certainly taken place since. Don't forget that Northern Ireland was and indeed still is a part of the UK. I don't think I need to elaborate in respect of the rioting which has taken place there and which has resulted, over the years in numerous prosecutions for "riot". Sorry to "split hairs"................. Dave.

Mervyn, The late John Green is the gent who published the book on Scottish Police insignia etc. Dave.