JimZ

The liner is there - simply scroll right on the post where the pic is. :)

So that is what it was! An Afghan medal!!! Honestly if Ed says there was only one class, then I'd be quite confident that there is no second class. Looking at the damage to it on the obverse and particularly the reverse I would not be surprised if the medal was left lying in the soil or was subject to some really bad storage conditions that ate it away - the reverse is quite damaged indeed! Either way it is most likely that the original ribbon was simply replaced with the current one. What I do not understand is why it is referred to as a medal for combat service as opposed to a Medal for Distinguished Military Service as per the more common Soviet Union medal. Perhaps the script in Dari refers to it as 'Medal for combat service' instead? Either way, glad to find out what it was! Thanks for the pointer Jeff. Jim

So that is what it was! An Afghan medal!!! Honestly if Ed says there was only one class, then I'd be quite confident that there is no second class. Looking at the damage to it on the obverse and particularly the reverse I would not be surprised if the medal was left lying in the soil or was subject to some really bad storage conditions that ate it away - the reverse is quite damaged indeed! Either way it is most likely that the original ribbon was simply replaced with the current one. What I do not understand is why it is referred to as a medal for combat service as opposed to a Medal for Distinguished Military Service as per the more common Soviet Union medal. Perhaps the script in Dari refers to it as 'Medal for combat service' instead? Either way, glad to find out what it was! Thanks for the pointer Jeff. Jim

;)

Last I remember it was not. At least the CCCP variation. Note that is post Soviet or rather Russian Federation with the blank red banner. Hideous!! I would doubt that anything that is Russian Federation is researchable but I stand to be corrected on this one. I haven't researched anything in a while now And I have a frame full of orders staring at me and asking me.... WHY NOT????

Nice partial group - IF!!! I am not sure I'd be too convinced about the third class pertaining to the second class on account of the booklet, and its calligraphy which looks wrong to me. I also think that Igor proposing that research alone may confirm or otherwise means that he too must have some doubts! But at least the 2nd class + booklet should be OK with a PMD certificate ... no? Maybe not - If I am not mistaken (and please correct me if I am wrong), PMD had stopped certifying the 3rd and 2nd classes on account of the ease with which these orders could be faked. That leaves me with less assurance from that particular certificate than I would get if it was anything else certified by PMD. At least those are my thoughts. Anyone else?

Yup. Link works!!

There is a specialised forum called the Preservation and restoration of military artifacts you should be able to find it at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showforum=137 (if the link works!) There is some very interesting reading and I am sure that bronze disease has been touched upon a few times. Humidity is indeed a problem which is why you should pack up your lovely collection and send it to me by mail and I'll be sure to take good care of it for you!!! Special special treatment for the soviet section, which If I may, I am really looking forward to seeing close ups of!!! And I though St.Pete was St Petersburg.... Russia!! :blush:

I would refer you to http://proteus.brown.edu/greekpast/4867 where there is a very interesting article which I am also reproducing hereunder "Bronze disease is a form of corrosion that affects bronze artifacts. It manifests itself as either a powdery green substance on the surface of the metal or as a warty or waxy film over the surface of an artifact. To the untrained eye, it may simply resemble a natural patina. However, while a patina is not destructive, bronze disease most certainly is. In reality, ?bronze disease? is not the result of bacteria, as the name would suggest, but the result of a complex chemical reaction. It is known as bronze disease because the reaction produces a green powder on the surface of bronze artifacts that resembles a fungus. This corrosion is much like rust on iron. This corrosion is caused by a circular set of reactions that involve the chlorides of a copper alloy and water. Bronze disease is triggered by the presence of water in this equation. It might take just one humid day to activate the reactions and begin the destructive chain. The actual chemical reaction is still not fully understood, though the chemistry of corrosion has been studied for some 150 years. However, the basic understanding of the process indicates that the presence of cuprous chloride in copper alloys reacts with water to create hydrochloric acid. The acid then eats away at the bronze, and in turn reacts with the copper. This second equation produces the visual manifestation of the disease: that dreaded green fuzz. Generally, the fuzz covers pockmarks caused by the hydrochloric acid. +H2O → 2HCl + Cu2O 2HCl + 2Cu → 2CuCl + H2 A basic representation of the chemical process. If left untreated, bronze disease will continue to eat away at the metal to the point of complete destruction of the artifact. However, several steps can be taken to both prevent and treat bronze disease. Among private collectors, there are several popular methods of stalling the effects of bronze disease, though none of these are permanent cures. Initially, the reaction can be stalled by removing the moisture from the piece. This can be done by placing the infected coins or artifacts in the oven on low heat in order to dry them out. Unfortunately, this often causes the surface of the metal to darken irreversibly. Additionally, this is certainly not a permanent solution; just one more especially humid day and the bronze disease will be off and raging again. Another non-permanent fix is soaking the afflicted piece in either distilled water or a solution of sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate. Again, this will only halt the reaction until the cuprous chloride comes into contact with moisture in the air. A more thorough solution to the bronze disease problem involves using benzotriazole (C6H5N3). This complexing agent is highly carcinogenic. It can be dissolved in ethanol to make a solution for soaking infected artifacts. Once cleaned thoroughly, the piece can be coated in a varnish, wax or a resin to prevent a recurrence of corrosion. This method is favored by the British Museum. However, microcrystalline waxes are risky for two reasons. Firstly, it is very difficult to reverse their effects without causing serious damage to the artifact. Secondly, if the bronze disease hasn?t been completely eliminated, the metal will continue to corrode beneath the lacquer. Consequently the bronze disease is completely untreatable, and the artifact will be lost. An alternative to a finishing lacquer is some form of humidity control. Below 39% humidity is ideal for bronze storage and display. Unfortunately, humidity control is very costly, and sometimes impractical in a display setting. However, the effects of bronze disease can be controlled with due precaution and careful periodic examination of artifacts. Works Cited Scott, David. Bronze Disease: A Review of Some Chemical Problems and the Role of Relative Humidity. The Journal of the American Institute for Conservation, Volume 29, Number 2, Article 7, 1990." Chemical reactions may start from humidity trapped in the sticker or even worse, from the chemicals used in the sticker's adhesive. Even leaving items to collect dust can cause damage as the dust itself retains humidity and can trigger off the reaction. And mind you, this does not only apply to bronze but also to iron. Hence, if those iron crosses have the same sticker on the core you could be in for a nasty surprise. More than bleeding hearts you might wind up with bleeding medals which will make them lose some of their beauty and needless to say their value in both intrinsic and collectable terms. Hope that helps.

Some nice eye candy. I'd suggest you post the close ups in their respective forums. Perhaps, these could even be moved to the collector's showcase if you prefer whereby you can showcase your whole collection without the need to break up the close ups. Let me know if you prefer and I'll see if it can be done. Incidentally what are those pesky blue stickers on the reverse of your orders? In my experience these items tend to damage/corrode the order due to the chemicals in the adhesive and may lead to discoloration or other reactions such as bronze disease etc. Would they not be better off if they were removed before any (further) damage may be caused? Best best! Jim

Show us more. And show us close ups.

US$6,111 - crazy! Rick makes some very interesting observations. Particularly the lack of serial number in the booklet. As always research will show whether or not the buyer paid US$6,050 too many. Do not have the time but I also wonder where exactly the serial number places this award. And even so - I know that soviet orders awarded to foreigners are rare and desirable but this price is excessive and ridiculous to say the least. We are after all speaking about a humble OG3 after all. The mind boggles.

A hideous order especially given the proportion of the medal to the ribbon. I just cannot seem to get used to the orders of the Russian Federation! Maybe in time when I get to hold and fondle them..... but not just yet.

Just making sure we do get lost in the debate after having lost track of what is supposed to be what!!! Seen some of the latest russian medals? - Forget the cheap Umalatova awards - New Russia's awards are nothing much to write home about. Seems to me that today, some governments fail to place any importance on the medals they award the people who serve or risk limb and life for their country. Medals have just become trinkets and seem to be losing the social importance they had a hundred, even fifty odd years ago. Perhaps this attitude is simply being reflected in the manufacture of medals. A pity indeed if this is the case. Rick, thanks for your last comment particularly as it answered something which has long since bothered me - why isn't the 1914 iron cross always worn first in imperial ribbon bars! Toe nail polish - Don't they call that soft enamel?

Is there any official reference to the iron cross? Why are we even making the link? Just because its German, shaped like a cross and with the exception of the three service variations, there is one that is awarded for bravery? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge_of_Hono..._the_Bundeswehr I thought that this was an Ehrenkreuz der Bundeswehr - not an Eisernes Kreutz. Butt ugly yes - but not an Iron Cross - and not even trying to be one.

My pleasure. I always try to search for mine and other queries. Its amazing how small variations on the search may reveal sites that may otherwise remain obscure. Glad to have helped. Jim :cheers:

I'll just translate what this association does form the site as the translator does a clumsy job of it: ?The Unione Nazionale Ufficiali in Congedo D'Italia (U.N.U.C.I.) which is headquartered in Rome, is an association of officers who have served, at any rank whatsoever, to the Armed Forces of Italy, and who intend to keep themself united in order to better serve the State at any time, in order to concur to the scope that it pursues in the field of their professional preparation?.

Its just an online translation of a site but it may help you. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?t...mp;fr=yfp-t-501 Jim

So interesting to see some old Soviet and new Russian Federation ODMs all worn side by side!! Very interesting pics as over time, all the old soviet awards will disappear from uniforms of serving soldiers to be replaced by the new orders and medals of the Russian Federation.

Would be nice to have proper thread titles that say something about the content of the thread rather than the umpteenth "Rare" or "Is this rare" thread.... especially when they are, more often than not, not rare. Please take note for future thread titles. Thanks, Jim

Bet Stalin did not see that coming during the purges! Some very interesting oictures otherwise! Jim

Here's the pic of Shotty's gas mask as he had some problems uploading the image. Still best to leave it alone and then trade up. Regards, Jim

Hardly - not much you can do about cracked rubber! I'd say leave as is and upgrade at the next opportunity. Post a pic of the damage pls. Regards Jim

As I see them: OGPW2, ORS, MMM, Lenin Centenary Germany, Caucuses, 20th An. GPW, 30th An. GPW, 40 An. GPW, Koenigsberg, 50 years SAF, 60 Years SAF 70 years SAF, Veteran of labour Would have expected the Koenigsberg to have been mounted on the 2nd row before the commemorative medals. I've come across both green and blue Koenigsberg. Never quite figured out if its discoloration or some later replacement ribbon that was not exactly green!! As far as I have seen on other ribbons, green usually tends to become much lighter over time rather than become a bold blue. Jim

Its when I see photos like these that it hits home how far military technology has come in the last 100 years.....