JimZ

Looks to me like that photo shows our brazen hussy sailing our of Marsamxett Harbour and passing fort Tigne at the tip of Sliema. I could be wrong but methinks not!! Bit late to post on this thread but hey...... Jim

Rich, Any time you want there's loads of people that will clear up your mess.... Oh you'll have the cleanest shelves in the forum!!! I likw what you did with the display. Its a pity though that not all medals can be propped up as nicely as German ones... Now take soviet medals with their suspension pieces.... or say mounted groups.... Jim

Hardly a child....

Giggle....giggle giggle....snigger...sniiger!! At the mention of Dali and having watched Notting Hill for the umpteenth time....I'll quothe...SURREAL BUT NICE.... Good one! Jim

[attachmentid=61347] .....take a look at the white enamel. I have put 2 originals (one worn and used and one near mint) on the top and the three fakes from above in the red box. Compare the enamel and you wil notice that the reflection of the light gives away the poor quality of the 'enemal' work. I believe that larger pics would have revealed many more inconsistencies but alas, these never came.

[attachmentid=61342] [attachmentid=61343] [attachmentid=61344] nubered 1604 - no photo of reverse [attachmentid=61345] [attachmentid=61346] All three classes of Service to the motherland up for grabs. Not sure of the manufacture of these and if some parts are perhaps original or this is a whole fabrication from scratch. However........

Hey Stogieman Allow me to go on this one post but I can explain why the card would be issued in English.....and its very very simple. Its the start of the German dream later to be witnessed by the following dramatic chain events...... "The European Union commissioners have announced that agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short). In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c." Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik emthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like fotograf" 20 persent shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go. By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by " v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru. " Jim

Two sad stories Dave..... many more out there surely. But the third one at least leaves us all hopeful that some sellers see the light! Jim

Where it not for the spiralling inflation in prices, time would be our best friend. Jim

Interesting....so I ask....why do some members get a rap on their knuckles or have their posts/threads removed when mentioning or questioning researchers. After all hosting your own website does sounds pretty transparent to me .... I still fail to understand why researchers should get in any trouble unless the information is still classified and is not authorsied to leave the archives.... and if russians (or some specific ones) are authorsised to carry out research, then it also makes commercial sense that these services be sold to those in other countries or who do not have access to archives ..... Just wondering really!

I think we should not lose sight of the fact that most of our individual ODMs are part of groups long since split up. Of course, if a group was totally shatterred 10 or 15 years ago and now, individual awards are changing hands, then there is nothing to be said about that. These lose awards for the basis of most of our collections....basically most of what had been undone cannot be done back....except in exceptional cases. If the ORB in question was on sale, if the research show it belonged to a group of another 15 orders, then I would myself find no objection to buying it, assuming there is no evidence that the a present existing group is being split at the time. And I would like to think that if at one stage I found out that such an award in my posession is missing from a group then I would gladly consider exchanging it or otherewise trading it for a similar or other ODM. After all, I too am looking for some orders to reunite some of my groups!! I however do find myself in a quandry when my participation in an auction could be part of splitting a group of medals. On the one had I'd hope my bids could salvage the group. On the other hand I know my bids will probably help fragment the group even further. And in the end it is likely that the group will anyways be split!!! So what is ethical to me as a collector.... a) To try to salvage the group? - Possibly expensive and possibly more damaging than good b) To boycott the seller? - I am not the only buyer out there...lets face it c) To apeal to the sellers conscience? - Been there done that too many times and sadly this does not always work especially when, in spite of my real polite appeal, I am told to mind my own sweet business and not interfere...and if I want the group then i can jolly well bid on the items!! (like that was the point!!) I think there is no real solution to this and all of these options are all correct and yet, usually futile! Jim

Well true...we all have pieces of groups in our collection. Especially those of us that like variations. Its not something one can or cannot condone. Its a fact of life and so many loose medals are running around and the sad fact is that they came out of groups which will never be re-united. And it is true, if a single award is already available for sale (seperated from its group), then why not buy it. We all do! But what really angers me is when one blatantly has a group.... even if missing an award.... and he/she decides to split the group and blatantly auctions up all the pieces individually. A group of orders and medals that has been togther for say 50 odd years or more, again even if missing a piece, should not be split up! There is no seller perspective as far as I am concerned other than profit. A full group sells better than a partial group which sells better than individual ODMs....usually. But if a group is split then this is a seller's way of ensuring that some dedicated person will come and pay all it takes to salvage the group and the seller maximises his profit. As was rightly said, we are custodions of a piece of history and should treasure what we have until they pass into other loving hands. It is always a very sad day for me whenever I witness the actual break up of any group......... but never as sad as when the group is soviet and so much nearer to my heart. Especially when you consider that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, all that some people were left with were their medals..... Jim

[attachmentid=61000] [attachmentid=61001] And more!! I find these "fascinating" as they are documented fakes.....always an upgrade!! At least the serial numbers noted are recorded here......although I am sure each time the doc and ODM will appear with a different number.

[attachmentid=60998] [attachmentid=60999] And again more.......

[attachmentid=60993] [attachmentid=60994] [attachmentid=60996] [attachmentid=60997] More......

Hey guys, This is even more blatant.... "This order is the part of the group of ....... awards. I am selling FIVE out of six decorations.......... One of his decorations (Military Red Banner) is lost, so I decided to brake the group. But if you decide to collect the rest of his decorations, please also check lots # ........... Of course, the value of the group will go up. " Fact is, I'd salvage the group if I could but I would not put a single dollar towards this if I missed a single medal. And the risk of course is that someone gets into feeding frenzy mode and sweeps that one medal away. As much of a hero as I sometimes like to be, you got to just let some groups go! And on the other hand, some of us are out there looking for what has been described as a needle in a haysatck when we are trying to find missing Red Stars, OGPWs etc etc. The initiative taken by some of our beloved russian ODM dealers should be applauded: http://www.soviet-screwbacks.com/cgi-bin/o...ng=0&ref=ok Looking at the entries already in this database lots of collectors are much more serious about what they are doing...... I just put in some missing orders only the other day from research and award booklets. Maybe one day I'll be lucky too and manage to re-unite a couple of groups. Just as it may take years of luck and diligence to re-unite, a group is so easily broken. Jim ..... And for crying out loud...get your spelling right if you're going to 'brake' a group!!!

Gentlemen, I am angry and need to vent. I am sick and tired of sellers who think that they can play God and split up a group. And the sad excuse that one out of a group of 6 medals is missing just does not justify any reason to break up what belongs together. Admittedly, all of us have bits and pieces of groups and that is bad enough. Guilty as charged. But hey, the 1990s saw enough russian being groups torn apart. Over 25 years down the line, you'd have thought we'd have learnt better but some people are still there ripping groups apart. And the sad thing really is...there is nothing anyone can do to stop this from happening. Appealing to a sellers ethics does not always cut it and in our effort to salvage a group, some of us will end up bidding against eachother, ruining the other's effort to salvage the group. Some sellers ought to be blacklisted! Of course groups will still be destroyed as long as there are "collectors" who are ready to buy the bits and pieces...... Jim

[attachmentid=60969] [attachmentid=60967] [attachmentid=60968] Yet another one....different number and doc to the last one of these I posted. They're out there.......watch out as they are not always sold as copies or fakes. Amazing how once you get started on the subject of fakes it seems like its a whole world to itself! But when money is involved its to be sadly expected. I just hope someone finds these posts of some use. Regards, Jim

And you think that you're the only nerd out there I'm here with Ed...waiting to hear Go for it Gerd!

....Oh what's the fuss I too got trees in my back yard...... Mising the FW though!!! Thanks for sharing Dave! Jim

[attachmentid=60912] [attachmentid=60911] 13X,XXX - Original order falling in unissued range of serial numbers. Usually in mint condition but obviously unresearchable if never awarded!! .... Still.....one of the loveliest orders........

[attachmentid=60906][attachmentid=60907] [attachmentid=60909][attachmentid=60910] ..... and yet again. Fully documented copy.......

[attachmentid=60899][attachmentid=60900] [attachmentid=60901][attachmentid=60903] And again.......

Thanks Gerd, I would have expected as much. I'd admit (as a collector though!!) that I'd be more than slightly peeved off to receive the same commemorative award to million others when my citation was for combat action!! Of course, lets be honest..... if I lived through the tough life that some awardees lived through in post war Russia , then maybe worrying about which variation I was awarded might really be the last thing on my mind....!!! Jim

Soviet Well sawed off is sawed off (although i really meant completely sawed off or partially sawed off i.e shortened with part of original thread remaining ) .... But shortened could be anything else really ...broken off, screwback pulled off or removed from the weld etc etc. With home made conversions u can never really say..... However seeing it an at an angle is different. Thanks for posting the last pic. As far as I know surviving vets of the GPW received an 1985 OGPW. I am not sure what the criteria was for deciding on 1st or 2nd class award.... can anyone throw any light pls? Jim