Bernd D

Patrick, I use the DKB and other sources. Because a lot of informations are missing in the DKB. It is not complet and sometimes just a fragment. For example Georg von Stillfried and Rattonitz: In the 1905 edition you can read that he is promoted to Hauptmann and posted to the 2. Feldregiment the same day. Next entry is telling you that his health recovery stay Germany is prolonged for two month untill 24. October 1905. Nothing else. In the 1906 edition you find his name only one time, he returns to GSWA 19. April 1906. So you do not know what has happened in the meantime. Bernd

The Stillfried puzzle Count (Graf) von Stillfried and Rattonitz: Georg ? Oberleutnant 1898 and Hauptmann 1905. He staid in GSWA 1900 ? 1909 and returned to IR 75. KrO4x in 1905. He was on sick leave for six month in Germany,1905. He was married. His wife arrived in GSWA 1901. Waldemar ? Leutnant 1897 and Oberleutnant 1907. He staid in Cameroon 1901-1903 returned to Garde-Grenadier-Regiment No 3 and went back to GSWA 1904-1905. Afterwards he went back to GGrenR 3. KrO4x in 1903. Felix ? Leutnant 1892 and Oberleutnant 1901. He staid in GSWA 1898-1902 and 1904-1905. He retired 1905 and did not receive the KrO4x. Bernd

I could not find the name Albin Freier in any book, nor Kolonial-Wochenblatt and he got no decoration. I found Otto Freier, but he died 1906 in Cameroon. Bernd

It were 4.084 EK 2 in total. Nevertheless hard to find. Bernd

Claudio, the name is Kurt Oertzmann. He got the MVO 4 on 20. Sep 1910. Bernd

It is a MVO 4th class with swords, silver gilt, by Hemmerle. Quite common. Bernd

Igor, have a look here: www.patzwall.de go for AUSZEICHNUNGEN it is in fourth position. You can order it for 24 Euro. Bernd

You are right. The navy and the Seebataillon?s were the first in China. The III. Seebataillon was station in Tsingtau. The I. and II. Seetataillon were mobilized and send to China in July and arrived middle of August at Taku. The reason fort his rapid deployment is simple. The navy was under the command of the Emperor. They also were the first in GSWA a few years later. The six East Asian Regiments and other troops were recruited out of all German armies. Put together from all German states. For example the Emperor asked the king of Bavaria and Saxony if they could support him with some troops in China. They asked their soldiers, hey guys anybody interested in a voyage to China, all-inclusive, playing a little bit of war? Well not really like this, but all army troops, which were send to China, were volunteers. All together, army and navy, by 30.000 German troops were stationed in China between 1900-1902. Among the 4.000 to 5.000 navy soldiers you will find nobody who received your medal for the service in China. Be happy that it still exists. It might be unique. Only a very small amount of Russian decoration survived on medal bars the WW I. Did you have a look at this? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19108 Bernd

Dr. Frank got it 7 March 1871. Dr. Voogt got it for general military merit.

Dave, They all got the decorations for general military merit. But Dr. P. Frank, British, got the knight 2. Class war decoration in 1871. Yankee, After 1892, all veterans of the 1866 and 1870/71 wars who got their decoration for war merit could apply for wearing swords. Afterwards they went to a jeweller to order them. So all swords are looking a bit different. The awards handed out for China 1900/01 were the first once with homogeneous swords. The first decoration with swords was awarded in 1893. And for the first time you could read ?Kriegsverdienst? on the certificate. Bernd

Just for example the knight 2nd class. In 1870 and 1871: 1411 war decorations (swords) 107 decorations for general military merit. That is about 7% of the total. It is a mess, I know. You can?t see it on the medal bar, certificate or Armeebefehl.

Some facts. For the Boxer uprising 38 German soldiers (army and marines) were awarded with the RSt3x in 1903 and 14 got the BZ3bx in 1902/03 (army and marines). As far as I know. I don?t know the awards for the navy. Bernd

This bar belonged to Olt Gerhard Kadelbach. He came from the Fu?artillerie-Regiment No 14 to the Ostasiatisches Bataillon schwerer Feldhaubitzen in 1900. 1901 he returned to the Fu?artillerie-Regiment No 9. He got the PKO4x ? 1900, BZ3bx ? 1902, RSt3x ? 1903 Bernd

Dave, your list is nearly perfect. Some are missing, that is true. But your figures are a little bit mixed up. You make no distinction between awards for war merit and civilian merit. Both types were awarded between 1870 and 1873. As far as I know the Armeebefehl just listed them all without distinction. Those who got it for war merit could apply for swords after 1892 the others not. Bernd

It is a picture of Victor Delius. According to the Prussian Milit?r-Wochenblatt (1901) it ist he Austrian War Medal. Delius was in China and GSWA. His home unit was the IR 77. He got the KO4x in 1906. Bernd

It were about 1.500 knight 1st and 2.500 knight 2nd class.

Normally it was awarded with the black ribbon with white stripes or a few with the white ribbon and black stripes. The iron crosses ribbons. But during WWI a few decoration of the PRAOx and PKOx were awarded with the ribbon according to the regulation, i.e. for he PKO the blue one. In the certificates it is written ?am statutenm??igen Bande? . Some Turkish officers received it this way. So this combination is possible. If it was always like this you will never know.

This was all in 1902 but I don?t have the exact issues. The Milit?rwochenblatt was not very accurate in naming foreign medals and orders. The medal was called "russische goldene Kriegs-Verdienst-Medaille" with no further details. In the attachment you find a picture of the medalbar of the former Gefreiten Hipp, III. Seabattalion, a defender of the legation in Peking. He received this medal in 1902, too. It is in last place. (WgM - MEZ 1 - China Medal with bar PEKING - Russian Medal)

For China a few German soldiers were awarded with the Russian golden War Merit Medal, according to the Milit?rwochenblatt. But they received the MEZ1 or MEZ2 before. Exempt one they were all Naval Infantry. Some soldiers received the Russian China Commemorative Medal, too. That was all German soldiers got from Russia. Of course there were some officers who receive orders.

PS: After taking a closer look again, I'd say #1 might be good or might be a fake, #2 i s a fake in my humble and honest opinion (I would have placed a bid on it if I liked it), #3 is fine actually ... This is no defamation, please do not use this term again referring to QUESTIONS I'm asking in a forum, thank you ...

I like to have a good reason and explaination why these three medalbars should be a fake. It is easy to place pictures claiming the object is a fake without further explainations. What happens here is defamation. All three medalbars are definitly original. I?m selling no fakes. You don?t know much about good or bad, do you?

I have never seen a Silver Merit Medal given by Friedrich II. for Colonial service post 1908, but I guess there were as well some (say five, ten or twenty). If one of those was awarded another one in Word War I, he might have worn the SAME medal twice. Has anyone ever seen a Friedrich II. in silver on Karl Friedrich ribbon, awarded for colonial service? Rick, Heiko, Werner maybe?!

Heiko, there are 182 possible soldiers you could be the owners of those medalbars. The first one was a Feldwebelleutnant during WWI which means a sergeant in GSWA. The second was a Reiter or a Gefreiter in GSWA. The first one might be traceable the second one definately not. Too many of those medals during WWI. Bernd

Sascha, I?m sorry to say but he is GSWA and not DOA. Bernd

I saw this bar as well, and I struggeled with myself because I don?t like this king of making. Nevertheless, 11 soldiers were awarded with both medals (MEZ2 - 1901 and Baden Merit Medal 1902) for their service in China. From these 11 possibly seven could be the former wearer of the medalbar. They are: Gefr Ammann, 6. OA Infanterie-Regiment Uffz Hauck, OA Reiter-Regiment Gefr Hermann H?pfinger, Kommando des OA Expeditionskorps Sergeant Heinrich Julius Hermann Lindemann, 4. OA Infanterie-Regiment Pionier Wilhelm M?ssig, OA Pionier-Bataillon Kanonier Karl Schumann,OA Bataillon schwerer Feldhaubitzen Fw Paul Skowranek, 4. OA Infanterie-Regiment Regards Bernd