Wild Card

Right on the mark, Christophe! Can?t believe I missed that. Thanks - Wild Card

Gentlemen, I notice that there is a good number of British medals in this collection. Since British medals are usually named, if this collection hits the market, the British medals could provide the absolute link. Therefore, I would like to ask if there is any way that the recipient identification information could be disseminated among the British medal collecting community. Just an idea, Wild Card

Chris S & Rick, Thank you for the helpful information. I am really in over my head with this but am noodling along with it and may find success yet. I expect to have a local guru in to help me with this and other problems next week. Stay posted and, again, thank you - Wild Card

Hi Paul, Check out Bismark's Estate; the little museum out there is worth the trip. At least it was when I was last there ten years ago. Have a good time, Wild Card P.S. Let me know if they stil have the Henry the Lion and Guelph badges and sashes reversed.

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Yes! I believe that from the time the Red Star was instituted in 1930 until around the outbreak of the Great Patriotic War, this was the regulaqtion. "Marshals & Fleet Admirals of the Soviet Union" by Kutsenko has a Picture of Bluker with a Lenin, 4 Red Banners and a Red Star - all on the left side; and I know that I've seen other examples; but can't locate them at the moment. Wild Card

Hi Craig, I am compelled to add a few observations to many of the very fine comments (especially Rik?s) listed above; and I apologize for approaching redundancy on a couple of them. So, if I may - Let?s start at the beginning where you say ? imperial militaria is grossly undervalued, when compared to Third Reich militaria.? I must respond by asking what is the standard here? Would it not be just as accurate to say that Third Reich militaria is grossly overvalued, when compared to imperial militaria? In many ways, we are comparing apples and oranges here. Let me explain. Start by referring to Nimmergut?s OEK (Orden & Ehrenzeichen). We find listings for about 600 Third Reich items, probably two thirds of which could be considered to be actual wearable items. The same source lists over 3,000 Imperial German items; 99% of which are wearable orders and decorations. Aside from it?s size, the Imperial German category is far more complex in that there are over fifty separate entities, each of which awarded orders and decorations. Now, if you were to ask a dozen Third Reich collectors what they collect, in all likelihood, the answers would be something like nine ?Third Reich? one ?Panzer Assault Badges?, one ?knight?s crosses? and a ?1939 Iron Crosses?. Answers from twelve Imperial collectors would be along the lines of three ?Imperial German?, two ?Prussia?, one ?Bavaria?, a ?Waldeck?, ?Saxon Albert Order?, ?1914 war merit crosses? and so on. Therefore, the demand for a specific piece among the Imperial collectors is diluted by this huge range of particular interests. Don?t forget, for example, there are about 100 variations of the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle alone. Fortunately in part, this diversity has protected Imperial from the ravages of ?investors? because with Third Reich they can concentrate on probably less than a dozen items and screw up the whole market. I do not mean to say that the prices of Imperial German pieces have not appreciated over the years; but the increases tend to be selective and sporadic. 1870 and 1914 Iron Crosses, after laying relatively dormant for a long period, have shown spectacular increases in recent years. Prussian Red Eagles fourth class (third type) have gone from under $100 to around $300 in only a very few years; and don?t try to tell a PLM collector how undervalued the PLMs on the market are. Consider also - how do you put a value on a certain piece when the last one on the market sold for $x fifteen years ago and there might be only five collectors in the world who would be interested in it and only two of them know that one is available? If you are concerned about investing in Imperial based upon projected values, I would encourage you to look elsewhere. Consider World War II Italian and Imperial Japanese items; both of which, after several false starts, seem to have been showing signs of life lately. We have all seen, from varying distances, the saga of Soviet orders and medals which, price wise, over the past fifteen years have gone from ugly stepchild to queen of the prom status; but with this success has come the predictable wave of fakes, forgeries and unscrupulous so-called dealers. I have collected Soviet ?on the side? for ten years and the $ value of the bulk of my Soviet collection has increased by three to five fold. Big deal! For all practical purposes, my Soviet collection is as complete as it ever will be; my collecting resources are once again pretty much dedicated to to Imperial German. Frankly, even though my collections represent a certain amount of money, I will not be devastated if, when disposed, they bring back no more than was put in. They have brought me much joy, caused me to pursue intellectual tasks (research) which have taught me a lot, caused me to learn some of a second and third language, travel (often with my family) to places I would not have otherwise and, most importantly, meet a whole new world of very interesting people - some of whom have become my very closest friends. Sorry Craig, but I for one will very happy if, as you put it ?... pre-Nazi German militaria will always be relegated to the back-seat of German Militaria collecting?. Respectfully, Wild Card

Hi Rick & Gerd, Your responses to my comments both raise very valid points. Gerd, I did not mean to imply that the ?New Russian? wealth and attitudes are the sole reason for the prices that we are seeing; but I do believe that they are a significant contributing factor, especially with regard to the high end items. Your example of the extended availability of the two groups on CollectRussia has has not escaped my attention for the reason which you state. At the same time time, I am aware of two pieces which sold for six figures each before returning to The Motherland. That along with observations of activity at European auctions and conversations with, I think, influential individuals in this area are upon what I based my statement. Rick, your main point far transcends this thread; and, I would guess, to varying degrees applies to every aspect of collecting in this forum. My main collecting interest is Imperial German orders and decorations and that area certainly is not immune from skyrocketing prices as well. I can remember all too well prices back when I started collecting over twenty years ago. Things that I could only wish for back then look like unbelievable bargains today. Then I look at catalogs from the late sixties and really get` sick. It?s too easy to say that it?s all relative... inflation, and all that. I too, and I hope others as well, am very concerned about the prices keeping potential collectors (of all ages) away. Lastly, the plethora of Soviet fakes has considerably dampened my enthusiasm for collecting Soviet as well; and, as you said, I too am glad that I got what I did when I did. Sad. Regards, Wild Card

Hi Chris - Yes, as I indicated above, I do; and if I ever figure out how to post pictures, I will be happy to oblige. Best wishes, Wild Card.

Hi Chris - I would like to offer s little information with regard to your Hero Star. Something that struck me immediately, and has been alluded to elsewhere, is the high number for a 1943 award. For instance, I have a Hero Star #903 which was decreed on 14 February 1943 and another, #3706, which was decreed on 17 November 1943. Date wise your star falls between the two; closer to #3706; but note that the operative term here is ?decreed?. Now, going to the above mentioned Little Red Book, when we get to your star, #8282, we see that star #8281 was awarded to a recipient decreed (declared) Hero of the Soviet Union on 15 May 1946 and star #8283 was awarded to a recipient decreed Hero of the Soviet Union on 24 March 1945. Looking at the numbers, my guess is that your star was likely awarded in the second half of 1946. Why the delay is anybody?s guess; but such delays are not uncommon. I would note that late awards of the Order of Glory seem to be especially common. One last observation - it appears that Comrade Chernyaev was still alive in 2001. I hope that some of this information is helpful. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Rick, When I want a good shot of nostalgia, I just take a trip down memory lane through an old ?Igor catalog?; hence, like you, I have often pondered this same question; and may have some (sort of) good news. First, did you, by any chance, attend the recent OMSA convention in Atlanta? The reason I ask is that, in my opinion, there was the best selection of Soviet material there that I?ve seen in a number of years. Still not up to the good old days; but a big improvement. Now for the bad news - you knew that was coming. I would guesstimate that, since eight to ten years ago, prices on low end pieces have increased by three times while the higher end pieces have increased by five. At the same time (good news), I was told by a knowledgeable source that these prices are now bringing some material back onto the market. Unfortunately, more than ever before, this material is going back to The Motherland and once there, it?s out of sight and circulation for the foreseeable future. So, there it is as I see it. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Tony - I've seen quite a few mini Hindenburgs over the years; but this is a first. Congratulations on, what to me at least, is a rare find! Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi byf - Your point is well taken; but consider... more medals found their way west because they take less space (volume vs. value) and there was, when the wall came down, a more established Soviet medal collecting community in the west. Keep in mind also, that although there are medals to be found in Russia today, trying to take them out of the country, under the current attitudes/enforcement of the laws, could extend your visit to The Motherland indefinitely. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Rick - Me again. When I wrote my previous note, I thought that that ?20 Dec. 1951? date sounded familiar; but it was quite late and... A further check this morning confirmed - I have in a group to Petrov, Sgt. Major Alexey Andreevich a Glory Order 1st class awarded on the same date. Also, I have quite possibly seen your manas I was in Moscow in May 1995 for The Victory celebrations; and the evening before the Big Day, by chance we encountered all of the old heroes who were leaving a banquet at the Kremlin. As always, I wish that I had known then what I know now. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Rick - Do you have access to the Atlas of the Cavaliers of the Order of Glory? If not, you might be interested to know that your man Zaripov, Vladimir Galimovich was born on 4 January 1925 and was still alive in 1995. He received his Glory 3rd class on 20 February 1945, 2nd class on 31 May 1945 and 1st class on 20 December 1951. I am sorry that I cannot properly translate the more detailed information; but hope that this little bit is helpful. Best wishes, Wild Card

Good points Rick, especially with regard to vH&S; but while they are undoutedlly the best reference for medals and decorations, wouldn't you agree that they fall short on orders? Wild Card

Hi Don, Upon abdication, The Kaiser and his wife fled to The Netherlands where they stayed with Count Godard Bentinck. On 19 May 1920 they moved into an estate known as Huis Doorn which is, should the opportunity present itself, well worth a visit. He remained there until his death in 1941. I apologize for the fact that I can not account for the rest of the family at the moment; but hopefully this is a helpful start. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Bob, J?rg Nimmergut?s ?OEK? (Orden & Ehrenzeichen Katalog) covers this information quite well, while his four volume ?magnum opus? goes into it in much more specific detail. Best wishes, Wild Card

Sorry, I meant... ?an 1813 (Bl?cher)?...

Alan - Rick is right, as usual, but to me, there is an interesting aspect to this particular piece. The Hindenburg star is a descendent of the ?Bl?cher? star which was created in 1815 (of which there is also an abundance of fakes referred to by sellers as "museum" or "display" copies). Both are similar in form - a Prussian style eight pointed star upon which is mounted an 1913 (Bl?cher) or 1914 (Hindenburg) Iron Cross. I believe that these stars were additions to previously awarded Grand Crosses of the Iron Cross. Now, it seems that there were about eight Grand Crosses of the 1870 edition of the Iron Cross awarded; but, as near as I can tell, no stars. The piece shown here clearly has an 1870 cross on it; so if the above information and assumptions are correct, what we have is a copy of a piece that never existed. At the same time, while the 1813 and 1914 copies are quite abundant, this is the first 1870 piece/copy I?ve ever seen. Thanks for sharing - interesting. Wild Card

Hi Brian, Here is what I have found; hope it?s helpful. I'm new at this, hope that I am posting it correctly. von Klin(g)spors: S.L. Bar. v. Klin(g)spor - 3rd Curassier Regiment S.L. Bar. v. Klin(g)spor - 1st Hussar Regiment O'Etzels: Maj. O'Etzel (RAO4, EK2, ?Long Service Cross?, RW4) - ?Aggregirte? Officers of the General Staff S.L. O'Etzel - Topographic Bureau & Guard Schutzen Battalion S.L. O'Etzel (2) - Guard Schutzen Battalion Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi, Andreas Thies, http://www.andreas-thies.de/, had twelve badges of this type (none exactly like yours) in his 9 July 2005 auction that you might want to see for comparison. They are lots 559-570. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Dietrich, If it is of any help for reference , I have a Lenin Order #38838 which was awarded to Georgii Nikolaevich Filippov on 6 April 1945. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi Igor - The farthest back I can go is the 1837 Prussian Rank List. I am sorry to say that I do not find your man listed in it. Maybe someone else has something... Good luck & best wishes, Wild Card

Hi, again, Landsknechte - Faded baby blue it is. As a matter of fact, a close look at the reverse of the bar shows a patch of the bright cornflower blue of the long service ribbon; accenting how faded the obverse has become. Yikes! I do not how the creative spelling of your signature happened; I apologize; and hope that this one comes out correctly. Best wishes, Wild Card