Wild Card

Well Gentlemen, what we seem to have here is an ideal blend of greed and ignorance, which when mixed with “a little bit of knowledge” of which it is said is a dangerous thing, can only produce disaster and disappointment. I fully agree with M Hunter’s observation that she has become quite arrogant, even threatening (“... IF THESE MEDALS DO NOT SELL IN THIS LISTING , I WILL SEPERATE THEM...”); and her statement that “PEOPLE HAVE PAID MORE MONEY FOR A BASEBALL CARD”, while quite true, is an absolutely ludicrous comparison. Closer to home, she might like to know that Victoria Crosses and high Soviet and Imperial Russian orders regularly sell for six figures. And then there is always “... IF YOU PLAN ON CONTACTING ME JUST TO MAKE REMARKS , KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF , WHAT HAS BEEN DONE , HAS BEEN DONE.” Are you kidding? I think that I was married to this gal back some years ago. Take comfort that in the end she will be disappointed with what she gets and will wind up wondering what went wrong. What goes around comes around.

Yes. A number of these were awarded to Germans; and some have been seen here on The Forum.

MasterBo, That is truly a Super Group. Congratulations Wild Card

;) :beer:

:beer:

Thank you. Wild Card

Gentlemen! I have been informed by an authority whom I would not dispute in such a matter, that, contrary to the information that I posted previously (see above) that awards of this order were, in fact, made after 1918. Although he could not recall any such cases by name at the moment, he did indicate that some are known by name and that perhaps some Forum members with special interests in Lippe could provide the details. Calling all Lippe collectors! Researchers! I apologize for inadvertently adding to the confusion. :blush:

Hello Thierry, Yes, I do have the book. Actually, it is a set of five books. Best wishes, Wild Card

For what it is worth, Nimmergut notes in his magnum opus that with the abdication of the prince in 1918, the Lippe House Order was no longer awarded. Also, he does devote quite a bit of space to the post 1918 Ernestine Order awards by Carl Eduard of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

:speechless1: Unbelievable! Württemberg small gold arts and science, Hohenzollern merit medal, Prussian combatant medal (on the non combatants ribbon, no less!)... And then the ribbon bar... :jumping: And the photos... :jumping: Even though there is a medal missing (from Lippe?), this is the finest Württemberg bar I’ve ever seen. Congratulations and thank you for sharing this with us. Best wishes, Wild Card

This is all getting a little too esoteric for me. At this point, I don’t think that I would recognize the answer to my question if it was plainly posted. I will contact OMSA directly, thank you anyway.

:cheers:

If they were printed by a company in "Virgina" I can understand that there might be some problems. I don't mean to embarrass you Les, we all make mistakes; and I think that a little comedy relief, although unintentional was well timed. Regards, Wild Card

I cannot disagree with your position, but at the same time. I feel that there is room for legitimate flexibility on it. Think of the numerous medal and ribbon bars that have been identified by the unique combination of their awards. If one chooses to discount them based on this (not coming directly from the family) criteria, so be it. Next, think of the bars that have been identified not only by their composition, but by a flaw or other significant characteristic, such as an incorrect sword device on a ribbon, which is confirmed by a photograph of the purported recipient wearing it; and so on. I guess that in the end, we all have our standards. Also, in taking this position, we are setting ourselves up for an important limitation. Only one party can obtain a piece directly from the family. Let me explain. If Heinz buys a medal bar from the family and after a few years, he sells it to John who again holds it for a few years and then puts it in an auction where Wild Card buys it, is it now any less legitimate than it was back when Heinz bought it from the family; and remember, anyone can claim that it came directly from the family or, more commonly, that it came from a veteran who... Who’s to know? There is one other factor that can come into play here. I have a piece in my collection which I bought from a very reputable dealer. This piece came directly from the family. I was asked not to reveal it’s source/provenance as doing so would cause embarrassment to the family which had fallen on hard times. No problem. The purchase agreement was done before any mention of provenance came up. I think that this may happen more than we realize. Just some thoughts. As I said, we all have our standards. Regards, Wild Card

Hello PKeatimg, While going back through this thread, I came across your reference (above) to “...that OMSA data...”. Having been a member of OMSA for over thirty years, I have to admit that I am not aware of what data they have that would be of help with regard to this issue? Could you please point me in the right direction? Many thanks, Wild Card

Gentlemen, Although the line on this topic seems to be pretty well drawn between believers and non believers, there is something that has not been mentioned that bothers me. I bring it up because I find it curious that no one has mentioned it, not to change anyone’s mind. In a few days, we will have the opportunity make our annual trek to the SOS in Louisville where we will once again have the opportunity to buy von Richtofen’s medal bar, Goering’s Pour le Merite and countless EK1’s engraved to both the famous and not so famous. The added value of a provenance. Now as I understand it, this bar was not offered to Paul as belonging to GFM Model. Sure, a good forger could probably replicate this bar rather easily, after all, there is nothing really exotic on it; but then, and this is important, why go through that effort without attaching the “provenance”, which would increase it’s value by multiples? What are the odds of putting it out there and having someone spot it who would connect the owner? That just doesn’t make sense to me. In my opinion, in this case the fact that this bar was offered without a provenance is a plus. Regards, Wild Card

Hello larsb001, I would have to agree with your observation. It would be easy to say that it is some kind of mistake but the second example, from the museum in Brussels, says to me that there is more to it than that. To be honest, there is nothing that I know less about in the area of Imperial German awards than Saxony. Hopefully some of our more knowledgeable members have the answer. Stogie! Are you out there? Best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, I was once told by a very reliable authority that in the Soviet Union, firemen came under the authority of the NKGB. I have seen pictures of firemen’s badges with NKGB, MVD and MOOP marks on the lower banner. Do any of you have any information on this? Does this mean that the firefighters themselves were members of these organizations, or just came under their authority? Did this apply to all, or just selected firemen? Any information on this subject will be appreciated. Thank you in advance, Wild Card

The reverse just adds to the confusion. This is obviously intended to represent an officer’s cross (Schaumburg-Lippe style), but the monogram “L” again says Lippe. How do you vote? Best wishes, Wild Card

Gentlemen, Here is a rather curious little cross. The obverse center medallion suggests Lippe while the style of the crown is more Schaumburg-Lippe. :whistle:

Beautiful! I would like to point out that this appears to be a first type cross. Congratulations, Wild Card

I am inclined to agree with your thought - I cannot think of a connection. Perhaps someone else can come up with one?

Very nice! I have never seen one like this and have to wonder what the Hamburg connection is. At the same time, I am inclined to think that this is more related to I. R. 92 than the 17th Hussars.

Hey Paul C! Where can we see your catalog?

This may be so. Nevertheless it was reprinted in England about ten years ago; but I do not know what legal implications or entanglements may have been encountered in that project. Yes, it was originally published in 1940.