Veteran

Hello Pavel Thank you for providing us with this fascinating glimpse into Russian auctions sales. I must admit that I cannot relate very well to the Rouble as it might be worth compared to the Euro, Sterling or Dollar. It does look, indeed, as if starting prices have been lately considered too high. Let's see what come out of the next sales, first in Basel, next in London. This type of exchange is of significant importance to all serious collectors of older material. Please keep us posted with further developments, as they appear. Regards Paul

Yankee I quite agree with your remarks. The present owner of this cross showed me his buying notes : it was bought in 1971 from a respected Paris dealer for the sum of .... 120 US$. In those days, imperial Russant material was plentyful on the Paris market, and few collectors were really interested. Thanks again; its is a pleasure to share information with such knowlegeable fellow collectors as can be found on this forum. Regards Paul

Thank you Yankee, Pavel and Alex Your remarks have been extremely useful. Alex's suggestion that it might be french sent me thinking. I got hold of the badge again, forgeting about the Russian hallmarks I reported not found. With a high power magnifying glass, I found the french hall mark for gold on the reverse of the left horizontal arm of the cross. It is a minute hallmark showing a eagle's head. Was first used in 1847 and guaranties a minimum 18 carat alloy. Could not find a jeweller's mark, but these were made compulsory only later. I have a XIXth century catalogue from the firm LEMAITRE, showing a 2nd Class St.Stanislas which looks very much like the cross I have described except for the later eagles. Finally, and thanks to your kind help, I think we have established the cross I showed could very well be a French made gold 2nd Class cross of the first type. Interesting since Pavel reports he has never heard of a Saint-Stanislas made in Paris at that time. I am truly grateful Paul

Hello Garth Your close-ups are most useful. They illustrate one of the caracteristics of the french approach to campaign (and other) medals : the Mint has an obligation to keep a supply of such awards during the probable life-time of the men (and women) who have earned them, in order to provide them with official medals at a reasonnable cost. This leads to occasionnal restrikes which have slight differences with the very first issues. This is particularly obvious with the early IIIrd Republic colonial campaigns : TONKIN, MADAGASCAR, DAHOMEY. The attachment to the medal itself through which the ribbon-ring is linked to it had an oblong shape (the French refer to is as the "olive" attachment). It is quite obvious on the TONKIN and second MADAGASAR medals in your collection. Later strickings have a round attachment, smaller than the "olive". These are perfectly official issues, simply later one, but still possibly as early as the 1930s. This can be seen on your first MADACASCAR an DAHOMEY medals. I personnally remember buying a series in the early 1960s. Both types are perfectly legitimate and may have been worn by soldiers and sailors who earned them. Keep us posted with your collecting Regards Paul

Thanks a lot, Alex. The picture you show has common features with the one I have seen, excepr for the design of the eagles, which is quite different. The firm Arthus-Bertrand seems to have existed as early as 1840, according to JACOB (Court Jewelers of the World). Has anyone heard of Russian orders made in Paris as early as that ? A very interesting lead. I would be most grateful to Pavel if he would comment. I am most grateful Paul

Thank you ever so much for this immediate response, I am very impressed. This is the largest picture I have managed to upload. True measurement is 53mm across and weight 23grs. The reverse of the outstreched wings is finely engraved. How does one establish the year the cross was made ? Hallmarks ? Every bit of further information will be gratefully received, including possible names of jewellers and valuation, since such crosses have been reported sold recently. I am most grateful for your kind help. I was really wondering if it was a legitimate badge. Very best regards Paul

Hello everyone I came recently across this 2nd class cross of the Order of Saint-Stanislas. It looks like gold and enamels, but the design of the eagles between the arms is different from those illustrated in Werlich for instance. Could it be considered a a legitimate award. If so, why would the eagles be so different ? Could it be a Polish make rather than russian ? What period could it possibly have been made. It looks very good indeed, but I am confused. Every bit of information will be gratefully received Paul

Congratulations, you have a very good choice of significant awards. Some are quite scarce, such as the Belfor medal. Although it not truly an official medal, most collectors of the Franco-Prussian war like to have one. Hope you find further satisfactions studying and collecting this material. Regards Paul

In addition to the information previously given by Hendrick and by Bison, the commander level of the Order of Military merit required at least 20 years regular and excellent attendance as a member of the Reserve Forces. Only a small number were awarded each year, possibly 50. Since its lifetime was seven years only, this would mean 350 awards, approximately. Recipients' names and ranks were published in the Journal Officiel and later the Bulletin officiel des d?corations, m?dailles et r?compenses, the official State newspapers, very much like the London Gazette in the U.K. But you have to remember thet these badges were available from the Mint and from a small number of private manufacturers. When the Order of Military Merit was discontinued in 1963, an unknown amount of these badges were still in stock, and were gradually sold either to reserve officers who needed a replacement or to collectors. This being said, they are quite scarce and very popular with French collectors. The present equivalent to the Commander's cross is the Gold level of the Medaille des Services militaires volontaires, which is not worn around the neck. Regards Pau

Great news ! I wonder if it finds a client. All the best Paul

Carol Although it is difficult to see them clearly, you might be right thinking minor details may have existed. Several French jewelers probably made badges, which would account for such limited variations. The accounts of the Order show that the badges were ordered and paid for by the Chancery. Half- or reduced sized badges were privately made and sold. They are just as period and legitimate as the full size pieces Regards Paul

Eric Here is the picture of a full-size badge of the Order of the Reunion. As you can see, it does not differ from your badge, except for the mesurements. The "coq's head" hallmark can be seen on the cross on the crown, obverse view of the badge. Incidentally, these badges were supposed to be turned in when the Restauration came, in 1814/1815-1830. A small number were by Frenchmen, but awards had been made to Dutchmen and members of other countries in Europe - temporarily considered to be part of the Empire. Most of them considered they were not concerned.... The badges were naturally never worn in public after 1814. The overall number of awards was 135 Grand Crosses, 135 Commanders and 1,554 Knights. Approximately 250 Knigbts' badges were given up. Regards Paul

Hi all Very interesting stories come up on this forum ! If I may add a few remarks to the very accurate previous posts, I would like to say this ; 1. I confirm that Frenchmen CANNOT enlist as such in the Foreign Legion. They have an obligation to serve with the "Reguli?re" i.e. French national forces. One can only enlist under an assumed citizenship (mostly Belgian & Swiss). I enlisted a a Canadian. Was later "rectified" i.e. reassumed my french citizenship, and I became a Frenchmen serving as a foreigner (Fran?ais servant ? titre ?tranger). Service with the Legion was nevertheless credited to my further services as a reserve officer with the "R?guli?re". 2. While I was waiting to be demobed, I was with the D?pot Commun des R?giments Etrangers at Sidi-bel-Abbes in late 1945. Since I could write french reasonnably well, I was assigned as a secretary to the outfit in charge of enlisting new men. A very large number of German prisonners, mostly from the Afrika Corps, joined at that time. I cannot remember one who did not come up with his "Soldbuch" with complete services. There were also a number who had requested enlisment from prisoner-camps located in metropolitan France. Strangely one of them had been captured by my own Company (10e III/RMLE) in April near Stuttgart. 3. The walking out formalities were simpler in those days. You had to request evening leave with the adjudant-de-compagnie who delivered a permit. This was shown to the sergent de garde who checked your uniform. If you were OK he would let you walk out. If not he would thumb you back to your living quaters (chambr?e) without a word of explaination : a large mirror was available which you could consult to find what was wrong. Then you went all the way back to your chambr?e, attended to whatever was needed and took your chances with a very careful look-over. But those were the days... Veteran Mle 17.888 LE

Roeland What you need is the special "XXe Si?cle" issue of the french "Who's Who". Its first edition was published in 2001. You might be able to find a copy in one of the larger public libraries in your country. All the major military leaders you mention (and many others) have a good and short biography in that book. Regards Veteran

Your full-size medal appears to be very good and clean. Take a look at the edge, they are sometimes privately named or identification signs were added. The miniature has seen a lot of service, but it is not that frequent. Probably a good piece. Regards Veteran

The top prices paid over recent years for Imperial Russian material certainly have made faking attractive to the natural crook. So deliberate unmarked copies may well be on the market. But I would rather think fakers would try and add some type of numbering to make their wares more attractive and deceitful. One aspect is often forgotten. Over the years, and mostly between World Wars, a large number of Russian refugees came to Wester Europe and wanted replacements for the medals they had lost. Moreover, a significant number of Allied troops had also received St George Crosses and Medals. They could want replacements. A number of medal makers in Paris struck Russian medal, without numbers. When they were in silver ou silver gilt, they had the "wild boar's head" hallmark. Those are not original medals, but they certainly are not fakes either. The cross described could be such a werstern-made badge. No proof of that, of course. And nowhere near the prices asked for the genuine stuff. Greetings Veteran

This picture might well have been taken in the first years after WW1, possibly in the "20s or very early '30s. The tight beret was worn by tank crews, and air-force enlisted men until 1935. After WW1 the French Air-Force had regiments, which would explain the numeral on the collar of the tunic, which looks more like an officer's. The fact that he does not show his sleeves and wears the loops for an unworn decoration suggests he might be wearing some one else's tunic, as Rick's sharp eye has spotted. If he had been intitled to any type of rank insignia, he would have been sure to show it off. Photographers close to military bases had this type of garment available. Satory (see the photographer's adress) was a very important military establishment in the Paris area, and still is for some purposes. It also was a tradition to have a nice picture made to send family and friends during National Service. I hope I have it all wrong. That kid looked like a good to honest youngster. Regards Veteran

According to Jacobs, J.A. Da Costa was the prominent jeweler in Lisbon. His firm was founded before 1900. J.A. Da Costa was succeded by F.B. Da Costa. Your star would therefore be one of their early ones. I cannot comment on the Zeige price list you have. Not beeing a specialist of Portuguese Orders I could not discuss the possibility that 3 different stars existed for the Order of Christ. But I don't recall ever seeing any other type than the one you show; the two piece I have had in hand are absolutely identical (except for the reverse pin and plates) to the one you have. I always have thought there was only one kind. Regards Veteran

Tim is quite right, these badges seem to have been felt to be necessary by the holders of the Crescent. Imagination was let loose to satisfy wealthy prospective clients. In other words, the French made the badges they thought the Turks should have given them (if the Turks had been French, naturally !). The appeal of the few badges which have been seen on the market comes from the existing portraits and other representations of the very few holders. Collectors consider they were worn and are therefore legitimate. Since they were very scarce indeed and that the events are now well over 150 years, original proof is difficult to establish. Makers archives or private original orders may one day emerge. To be honest, I was happy to buy one when I saw it, not cheap but at a "reasonnable" price. Would probably do it again, they are facinating. It is to be expected that the debate, for what it is worth, will remain open for some time yet. All the best Veteran

Bressuire is a small town in a quiet rural area of Western France. In the '30s it counted slightly less than 10.000 inhabitants. Such medals were local tokens of appreciation, available for special events. A diploma may have been also given. In most cases, the Town Council would decide who they would be bestowed upon, and for what reason. They were quite frequent between 1880 and 1940, possibly later. They naturally appeal to collectors who concentrate on local history and who would, I expect, spend a few Euros to buy one. Regards Veteran

This is a breast star of the Kingdom of Portugal, i.e. pre-1910. According to Werlich, this order came in three grades : grand-cross, commander ans knight. In most orders, the commander wears a neck badge without a breast star (except in cas of chief-commanders or knight-commanders which do not apply here). You can therefore imply that his is part of a grand-cross set. The Sacred Heart on the obverse is the royal type. The order was abolished in 1910 and re-established in 1918 without the Sacred Heart royal addition. The maker's plate in the back would be interesting to have in-extenso. From the style of manufacure, I would think it would be early XXth century. According to Jacobs (Court Jewelers of the World) portuguese manufacture of orders was rather late in the XIXth century. Earlier pieces were often made in Paris (by Halley, for instance). When information is requested, may I suggest that exact measurements and metal be indicated ? It often is most useful. Hope to have been of help Veteran

Hello Paul Indeed, a very impressive picture. The four official medals are "heavies", so he must have served with distinction for decades, probably with life-boats. What really strikes me is the time it must have taken to attach that many medals individually. If you look carefully, you will see that the five first medals are mounted together on a slip-bar. Probably because they were "acceptable" in most of the cases (although n?5 is obviously a private initiative). But all the others have been carefully and individually attached to the coat.... it must have taken hours to do that and meant a lot to the old salt. The two stripes on his coat (enseigne de 1ere classe or lieutenant of the Merchant Marine) would indicate that he may have had a sailing carrier. In any case, he must have been considered a local glory to have post-cards made (and probably sold) showing his display of "awards", Thank you for showing this card. Quite a conversation piece ! Very best regards Paul

As promised, here is a blow-up of the center reverse of the 1870-1871 Croix du Combattant volontaire You really have to know what to look for to have the slightest chance to find the dates that make the difference .... It would be interesting to know how many of them could have been struck by the Paris Mint; considering the fact that it was introduced in the 1930, one would think that the youngest surviving volunteers would have been in their very late '70s or even in their 80s... and then they would have to be made aware of the fact that they was intitled to the Cross and told how to request permission to wear !. Probably adds up to a handful. Regards Veteran

Hello Christophe Here is a picture of the 1870-71 CCV. As you can see, it is absolutely identical to the 1914-1918 CCV, except for the center of the reverse, shown on the next message.

Congratulations Mark. This is a wonderful find. I wonder if the Service historique de la L?gion ?trang?re knows about this beautiful bi-lingual headstone. Best regards Veteran