Les

The filters contain charcoal grains. Charcoal absorbs all types of substances, but what is causing the rust is the presence of moisture which combines with whatever degraded compounds were absorbed at one time. What can be used to reduce the pH levels to something in the near normal range is to use old fashioned baking soda/powder that bakers use, or sodium bicarbonate and rub down the metal parts. If you want to go one step further, dump some inside the filter opening and use a vaccum cleaner on the other end. That will suck it into the carbon layers. Then keep the mask, filter, and carrying can in a dry storage area or display case of it's own. The baking soda won't hurt the mask (I'm assuming it's the mid/late war leather type and not the earlier war "Gummimaske"), or any of the various components. Oh yes, one last thing. Wash your hands really well after handling masks and filters. Almost all of the gas compunds have degraded in the last 90 years or so, but some of the degraded compounds can cause problems if you don't decontaminate yourself afterwards. You don't want to rub your eyes, nose, urinate/defecate without washing -FIRST-.....and esecially one other thing! Les

Brain H, (the "von Etzel" he used on this and other forums), said in one of his posts on WAF that his mother's father had a Jewish mother or grandmother. He said during the later part of WWI his grandfather saved the life of a man who later became a NSDAP gauleiter for the district his grandfather lived in. His grandather's status as a war hero, and with a little protection from a gauleiter probably kept someone the higher ups in the SD/SS/Gestapo would have applied the full force of the Nuremburg race laws on from being sent to a KZ camp. His brother Franz however was not awarded a PlM, and died in 1934. If he lived a little longer, things might have gotten "ugly" for the man with a Jewish grandmother, who gave Rothmann an EKI. Igor, Rick and PK are quite correct that this grouping is important on many levels. Les

Theo Osterkamp, 1940. Love the "shades"... Les

His grandfather did quite a bit towards actually deserving one back in 1870, unlike this guy's old man. So far, I'm glad the political types haven't been given much space in this thread ~ Somewhere in my stuff I have a 1929 dated and signed post card of him in uniform with a signed dedication. I'll try to locate it and post a scan. Les

http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/index.htm/index.htm This site has loads of good information on the Imperial German army, particularly the Order of Battle and bios of commanders. It's possible to follow an individual's career up the "Affelsakel", the leadership of units during the war, etc. Use it! Les

Luftie....that's an super group of photos, and the trinkets that you picked up aren't shabby either. Good on you for snagging the stuff! Les

Would Mata Hari (with or without the snake is your preference) do?

Details about Russian camps and any prisoners aren't easy to come by at all. I've been researching a very highly decorated WWI vet that joined the NSDAP in 1932, served in WWII, and then became a NSFO with the job of indoctrinating military personnel following "nazification" of the WH after the failed July 20th plot, and was then picked up by the Russians. Less than six months after the Russians got him, he managed to turn up a free man in Vienna (Russian occupation zone) where he died during the spring of 1946. His political stance would have prevented him from being released for humanitarian reasons depiste being very ill at the time of his capture. He was too ill to escape, and the Russians didn't turn high ranking and highly decorated types "loose" for humanitarian reasons. I suspect the Russians were "working" him. Bill Hammelmann told me his father in law was picked up by the Russians at the end of the war. He said his father in law was standing in a line with other POWs, and a Russian walked behind them. One of the Russians squeezed his father in law's butt and pushed him out of line and told him to go home. Apparently the butt squeeze was used to determine whether some prisoners had enough body fat and muscles so they could be used for work. Apparently the Russians felt his father in law wasn't worth hanging onto and not fit enough to work. Re: "Other Losses". My father's cousin was a Falslchirmjaeger that fought through Normandy, survived Operation Cobra and the Falaise Gap. He was wounded in the foot during Market Garden and spent the duration of the war in a hospital near Magdeburg. His hospital was taken over by the Americans on May 6th, and he was subsequently turned over to the French. His foot wasn't healing, and the French weren't able to use him for work on roads, railway lines, etc, they turned him loose after six months rather than feed him and provide medical attention. Because he was captured/surrendered -after- the German capitulation, he wasn't technically a "POW" according to SHAEF's classification system. He survived, and was far luckier than many of those who died from malnutrition, exposure and disease in some of the huge enclosures set up in the Allied occupation zones in western Germany, and parts of France. Les

I'm not quite sure what you mean by it not mattering who made it. There would be some value to a piece made before 1945, but none to one made after that. The fact is, someone could have made this at -anytime-, not necessarily during the period when these were worn. Mike...true the wings/prop device aren't exactly the same, but whoever attached it to the wreath, didn't make and enamel the wings/prop part. He got it from somewhere else and put two things together, at some unknown date. Some of the repro/fake observer badges look close to the originals, and with the center cut out, it's harder to tell the difference between whether a fake or original badge was used. In short, it's been put together. When is anyone's guess. If it's not the same as the known factory made ones, then it's not worth spending money on. Either it stands on it's own merits, or it doesn't. If it requires a story to make it interesting, then give it a pass. Don't be tempted by what you think might be a "rare" variation that could have been made 70 years ago, or yesterday in the backroom of some dealer's shop. If you can't proove when it was made think again. Les Les

The wings and prop are the same on both examples. Converting an observers badge required having the wings/prop device in order to make the modified badge shown here. Let me propose another possibility. The wings/prop may have broken off an original and the wreath lost. It's possible that someone at a much later date acquired the wing/prop part, but not the original wreath. It doesn't take rocket science for someone who wants to jack up the price of a broken item, to "covert" it to something more expensive by making it look like something else, and then suggest it's a "rare" example. Never understimate the power of greed and profit motives leading to someone cutting up a relatively common observers badge, in order to make (and sell) something at a much higher price. When these types of badges were still being made and worn, they weren't all that expensive, and for a few marks, they could be ordered through catalogues, etc. I'm not so sure the item is a period modification/conversion at all. Then there's the matter of whether you trust the source.... Les

The term "Turkish Superhero" isn't mine. Please see this thread started by one of the Forum's moderators: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31812 My post was originally placed here, and then moved by someone on the Forum with the authority and power to do so. I did not come up with the term that two fellow forum members seem to think is mine, and was meant with scorn. If they have a problem...take it up with the person who did use it. Generals and politicans in uniform are often seen wearing medals. My question is, and was, what actual bravery awards did Ataturk received for actions in which he risked being directly killed or wounded in combat? Awards given for leadership, are not the same as those received for actions when -your- own life is at risk while in range of enemy weapons. Asking that question is -not- political, although in some parts of the world, daring to ask "what did Fearless Leader" do, could get you jailed, executed, deported, or something of the sort. I know Ataturk served in combat, and personally led small units at the risk of losing his life. What I want(ed) to know, is what bravery or gallantry awards reflect that. His awards received while a division commander or higher up, are not the same as those given to enlisted men, company level officers, and probably held little personal risk of bodily harm to himself. If our Turkish friends think that's being political, perhaps that's a cultural and political differences indicative of thinner political skins. For example... http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/0...lts-to-ataturk/ Les

Demir, Thank you for the reply, and....the "comments." No "sardonic" attitude was meant on my part, other than trying to make a clear distinction between bravery awards awarded for personal bravery on the battlefield at the risk of being killed in combat, and awards often given to generals and political types for being the overall commander of an attack while setting in a safer position than the troops being shot at. I've never doubted Ataturk's personal bravery, and his actions at Gallipolli in April 1915 (or earlier) , need no defense from anyone. When I asked for a list of his gallantry awards, it's because places like Wikipedia are often prone to errors. I prefer getting "facts" from traditional sources and publications that can be verified and the sources checked, rather than internet postings that often have little or no way to verify where the information came from. Asking Rick, or Glenn for information, as anyone on this forum can tell you, usually results in rock solid factual information. I suspect the "attitude" you speak about is purely one-sided. Les

Rick...or Glenn This question is really a thread by itself, but the subject "Turkish Super Hero" raises my query. Do either of you have Mustafa Kemal Atat?rk's listing of decorations awarded up to the end of the war? If I recall correctly, he fought at a company grade officer during the 1912 Balkan War. Although he didn't lead any attacks personally, he was in exposed positions frequently in his role as a division commander, etc. I'm curious what actual valor or gallantry awards he acquired...the hard way. Les

Seems it took a Geheimlich manoever to unearth someone who was "Geheim" ? Btw, any ideas on what his -real- job description was with all of those "Geheimer"s in there? What would an African cattle disease specialist be doing in Asia? Rinderpest was a problem in Africa late in the 1800's, but I don't think there was any major cattle problems in Asia at that time. Les

Cats. Don't forget a cat, or two, or three.....You can overdo having too many though. The cats taught Mr. Rickee a thing or two that only a critter can teach. Les

Try a simple experiment. Clean and wash a gold ring and put it in your mouth. Keep it there and put a real silver spoon filled with lemon juice in your mouth and move the juice around with your tongue. Literally, and figuratively, you'll get a jolt and a lasting impression. If you don't want to put anything in your mouth, use a glass instead. Stir, and measure what happens with a voltage meter. Les

Meybauer made ones aren't common. With three in your collection, I can imagine you'll want a Godet example, and even rarer ones? It's hard to stop with one or two nice ones, and three could be tempting to build into a larger mini-collection all of it's own.... Nice ones. Les

There's lots of guessing going on with that thread. There are at least -two- badges that are very similar in their details, and when compared to the photo of Otto von der Linde wearing a badge that is similar to -both- of them, there is an unresolved question. Which of the two badges is the closest match to the one in the photo? There simply is not enough detail in the photo to reliably determine an accurate answer. None of the photos of the badges being discussed have enough detail to show whether the crosses and eagles were stamped from a single piece of metal, or if the eagles were made seperately and then applied to the cross(es) by hand. The feathers were reworked by hand using a jewelers saw and files to create the gaps between them. Depending on the skill of the person doing that work on more than one or two medals, there could easily be differences in a first take appearance and comparison. If the eagles were made seperately, there's nothing that rules out the possibility that -someone/anyone- decided to do a little "cut and pasting" to create a new type. The silver content stamping discussion misses the boat in several instances. First off, German, Austrian, and other European laws regulating precious metal contents can be different. Only during the Anschluss era of 1938-1945, when Austria was part of the Reich, would Austrian jewelers (if that's who made the crosses) have been required to follow German silver content marking regulations. Whether the silver content markings are "real"....I don't know. There are comments about one of the crosses being gold, and also having silver content markings. That led to further comments that perhaps the cross was silver, but the eagles might have been gold. Uh....no. Putting large chunks of gold and silver (not plating over!) creates a potential battery and electrical discharge situation. Remember, dentists don't put gold and silver filings in someone's mouth for a very good reason.....there will be a chemical and electrical reaction. Also, the galvanic reaction causes one metal to deplete the metal content of the other "pole." There's more, but that's all for now. Les

W.C. I have color vision problems that make identification tough at times. the second ribbon is a very dark blue, almost black, and isn't a length of service ribbon (and isn't in the correct place for one). I think you're right on about the first three, and wasn't really sure what the last one was. A Russian Stanislas is very possible now that you mention it, and as a foreign award would take last place in the arrangement. I'm wondering if this was worn by a civil servant/bureaucrat rather than someone in the military? Mr Rickee....any comments? Les

There's not enough to identify the owner, and no maker's markings either. The photos aren't sharp enough to show the pebbling on the front of the oaks, which don't seem to be all that common. Enjoy. Les

Over on the forum which some of us no longer post on, there is a recent thread on this type of PlM, with a link to the thread on this forum. I was referred to the "other thread" and then started looking for additional post WWI photos of v.d. Linder wearing his PlM. On the Axis History Forum, another WWII era photo of him was posted. That photo, unlike the one posted at the top of this thread, show him wearing a PlM that does not have the "pie wedge" design but instead what definitely looks like much smaller suspension system (a baroque loop?). Von der Linde was the fifth officer in WWI to be awarded the PlM. Almost certainly, he was awarded the early war type with a "pie wedge" and hollow gold (either a Wagner or Godet) type. The WWII photo here seems to indicate he had a second, and if the photo posted at the top of the thread is "legit", he even had a third one. Three different "styles"? That's getting into "Goering" territory! Les

Be vewy vewy careful if you do find one....

Cherie, The 79th Division were engaged with the 32nd Division near Montfaucon during the first part of the Meuse-Argonne. During the third phase of the M.A., the 79th was shifted eastwards and across the Meuse River. The "heights of the Meuse" where the Borne de Cornoulier is/was located, was primarily held by AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN troops of the 106th Infantry Regiment. On the 4th of November, Austria formally withdrew from the war, and A-H units on the western front began withdrawing from their positions that day. German units took over the positions from the Austrians. If as you say, your grandfather was captured on the 4th, he may have been picked up by A-H troops of the 106th (there was another A-H in the immediate area also) and then turned over to German troops the same day. I'll need a day or two to check my references (in temporary storage but easily accessible) and I'll get back to you on what German units were on the 79th Division front and on the Heights of the Meuse at that time. If I don't get back to you within a few days, feel free to send me a PM and give me a reminder/nudge. Les

Vic, I should have said that one in the photo was made by Rothe. Les

"SPM" is correct that this piece wasn't made by Rothe. The photos you posted bear a resemblance to the ones they made, but not all that closely when you compare the eagles. There are better "copies" on the market for less money than the price you mentioned if you're looking for a "filler" piece. Les