Les

It's free, no advertising, and so on. Check it out for on-line information such as what divisions specific regiments were assinged to, short bio's on some German corps and army commanders, etc. There's probably something there for almost everyone that uses the Imperial part of this forum. http://home.comcast.net/~jcviser/index.htm/index.htm Les

Ok Bob....they're working on that now. L.

Which one of you did Mother Smothers like best? Enquiring minds want to know? Les

Little does she know this man was awarded the special and coveted "Kerle medaille" for his conquest of....something or other.... No Soviet sheep herders badge for this man! Les

.This is one for the not so snappy dresser(s) category: and here we go for the "strum and drag" (confused over Sturm und Drang?) bunch. Ever wonder where "Abba" got it's start? Les

Richard, "Ya' doon good" as some would say. Every so often something comes along that's special, and when that happens, I like the old Germanic and pagan customs of a "christening" ("Getaufen") with a good libation. A wee small dram in other words either in the Pokal, or in something something else, drunk in it's honour. -If- you use the Pokal, think of the man, remember him and what you know of his life. Also, remember the man who went down in flames because that was also part of what getting that goblet meant: two men, and two lives and what happened. Then clean it well, and don't drink out of it again. Something things are meant to be remembered, but not repeated. Les

John, Polishing can take most but not every trace of silver off the surface. Heavy polishing will however take a considerable amount of detail off raised surfaces, particularly since silver is harder than brass, and in the process reduce many of those little squiggles to blurs. -Look- at the amount of detail present on the badge. If it had been polished, much of the detail would be gone, and still there would be small traces of silver in the little indentations along the outer edges of the arms of the star, around the base of the arabic writing, and the seal. There's too much detail, and the photo shows -no- trace of silver. Silver exposed to chlorine or salts for example, will damage a silver surface beyond normal tarnish (which is usually due to sulfide exposure...for example sulphur released in burnt coal which was a common fuel source in the not so distant past). Ask women who have worn silver jewelry into a swimming pool what the chlorine did to their silver. The owner of a damaged badge might have decided to strip the silver off completely by using chemicals to remove the pitted/corroded silver finish, or even reverse electrolysis to strip the silver off by using the badge as a "sacrificial diode" or donor source for silver and in the process put the silver on something else instead. Perhaps the owner wanted something different. Remember that red enamelled cresent on Joe Campbell's badge, and the rest of the star being silvered? I could be wrong, but I think it's been chemically stripped of it's silver. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Les

Chris, If you say he's Bavarian, then he belonged to a pre-1916 field artillery unit. The open buckle, sabre, leather re-inforced "Hosen" all point at his being part of a mounted unit. The Bavarian field artillery units wore -spikes- on their leather "Helms" until 1916, when the artillery ball favored by Prussia, et al was introduced into regulations and quickly replaced in turn for field use by the steel helmet. Also, he's wearing the out-moded short barreled Reichsrevolver which saw a great deal of service during the war. The newly introduced P08 usually went to the premier units, and the "Reichsrevolvers" tended to be relegated to reserve or behind the lines units as time went on. The Bavarians had 12 (if I recall correctly) field artillery units, so without a clear view of a shoulder strap or other indicator, that's the best I can do for you. Chip, anything else in the photo that stands out to your eye? Les

-NOT- snazzy at all: I'd have thought an officer could have done a better job of "putting on the Ritz" for his "Hochzeit" photo. Oh well, maybe he got EK for marrying into this family? Les

The two musketeers (the "twins" perhaps) out crusining? Les

Joe...there's hope, if the children are adopted. Otherwise, the next generation might look like the bunch in -this- photo.... java script:emoticon('', 'smid_25') :unsure:java script:emoticon('', 'smid_18') Les

What's this photo that fell out of the family albumn? The boys were into leather???

Thanks for the comments guys! The pin and catch are both brass, and as Micha points out the shape looks correct for a Meyhbauer pin. The use of brass led me to think the catch and pin were replaced....but apparently they were not. Les

..anyway, after it arrived and I lifted the pin, the Meyhbauer maker marking was a pleasant thing to see. Les

I posted two of the reverse, above and deleted the second photo...so, here's the obverse. Sorry for the mistake...it's turning into "one of those days."

'da backside...and look at the center closely

Sometimes you get lucky on ebay. I saw this cross a few weeks back, and liked the "character" it had, with the replaced brass pin and hook/closure. The pirce was dirt cheap. The auction photos were so-so, and I've retaken them so the details can be seen better. The original photo of the reverse hinted at something being in the centre of the cross, but there wasn't enough detail to determine exactly what was there. No one else bid on. I got it dirt cheap. Here's the (redone) photos that closely match the auction photos....

Brian, Begging Andreas' pardon in replying for him, here's the information you enquired about: R.I.R. 254 was from the Grand Duchy of Hesse (XI and XVIII A.K. District), and part of the76th Reserve Division. In the early spring of 1918 the division was transfered from Roumania to the western Front near Metz, then in April was in line near Montdidier (where they were hit hard during a French offensive against their part of the line). During late June, the division was in line near Verdun, and during September was in the Argnonne opposite the Americans. Les

On second thought, there are more than a few young and green 90 day wonder type officers who haven't learned that bunching up in a combat zone isn't something to do. Les

Chris, there were three infantry regiments attached to the division ( 3.B.I.R.; 22 B.I.R. and the B.R.I.R. 13). The first two regiments were part of the regular establishment and the 1926 Ehrenranglisten provides officer death information. The last unit, a reserve formation isn't included among the regular officers, so...no luck using that source. This web-site http://www.omaha-beach.org/Deutsche-Version/WK1.html mentions the B. 11. I.D. and the number of officers and other ranks lost during the last half of 1917 on the Chemin des Dames. Note that the French "Nivelle" offensive took place in April/May, several months earlier. You might contact the web-site's owner, who uses it to advertise for WWI and WWII related tours (including one at Verdun by the way) and ask him if he happens to have the "short" list of three dead "Ritters" that he referred to on his site. I'm curious what three highly decorated Bavarians were all doing in one spot that they were killed by the same shell and what ranks they held. I doubt if there were three low ranking "Ritters", all with the "Max Joseph" setting around the same shell hole near the front, or "thunder pole" a little further to the rear. If -three- were killed at once, that sounds like a shell landing on an HQ or command post. That would have most likely have resulted in more than three offficers being killed, but the Ehrenranglisten doesn't show any high number of officer losses in any particular regiment during 1917 or 1918. In 1916...there is around Verdun, but not on the Chemin des Dames then or later. Meanwhile, I'll check some of my other sources and see what, if anything, I can come up with. Les

John, There's a considerable amount to chew on in those posts, and plenty that's thought provoking. What does seem to be clear is that the standard Army and Naval Ehrenbecher, versus the "Thor" version are different in a number of ways. The Army/Navy one was often awarded not long after an flier got his first aerial victories. The goblets were not marked with the recipients name, date, or a place. The "Thor" on otherhand, based on the two known and dated Urkunden, years after the event (and even after the war was over) and had the name and date of a specific raid on them. Jocker's by way of one specific, was awarded the EKI, several months after the Dunaberg raid, which raises the question of whether the "Thor" was meant to be a contemporaneous award...otherwise, why wait almost three years before giving him the Urkunde? Also, there's the question of whether the "Thor" for the Dunaberg raid was made during the war when silver was getting scarce, or even...afterwards? If Jocker's had done "something" during the raid, was the EK awarded for whatever it was, or if it was important enough, why hold off on awarding the Thor for almost three years? Real "facts" about the "Thor" Ehrenbechers are on the sparse side, and there's more than enough conjecture to go around. Is it possible to determine if the "Thor" was made either during the war (by why wait three years to award it for a specific raid?) or after the war? If it was given for a war time career instead of a specific raid or event, then why add the date and location of a specific raid on it, and instead either leave it blank like the usual Army/Navy versions, or possibly the name of the recipient only? The goblets in a manner of speaking, raise far more questions than it or they asnwer. We know the two known award documents were given to the reipients -after- the war, but that doesn't mean either the recipients necessarily got the goblets at that time. Is it possible the "Thors" were made actually made (through previously allocated funds perhaps?) after the war, possibly by Wagner (who made the usual Army version)? I don't know... Let's hope more in the way of facts surface to rid some of the speculation and conjecture here. Les

Hmm....well at least the German Navy officers and men had the good sense not to be seen posing with parrots. Les

Did I mention it came in this little box? It's not as nice as the ones Ralph posts.... Les

The Silesian bird is post-war, although that didn't stop me from buying this......

Rick, For a very brief period of time, Bavaria was a "Red" state with Eisner as head of state. The cockade the fellow is wearing in the photo above is Bavarian, and the lack of a -national- cockade is within the then prevailing political climate of Bavaria, which did not particularly consider itself bound by past conventions with the rest of Germany. The "boy soldier' might not have been making a political statement so much as Bavaria was a socialist state for a brief moment before the likes of von Epp's reactionary forces booted Eisner's solcialist/communist republic out of power during the summer of 1919. Eisner who took control of the Bavarian government following the Wittelsbach abdication in early Novermber 1918, was voted out of office (although not his followers and fellow travelers who were litterally shot out of office) in January 1919, and assassinated while he was about to hand in his resignation as head of state when the results of the election were announced. Les