demir

Unfortunately, it was not translated, and the book is only 100 copies.

Good. So it is German made. But in this case it must bu considered replica or unofficial medal made outside of Türkiye. (The new offical name) It is rare so good for a collection

Recent replica

Hello, It looks like a German made medal. Please check the thickness. If it is more than 2 mm. then it is German made. German made ones are thicker than the Turkish ones. Also, you can see from the attached photo that the Turkish ones have a ring for the original suspension, and the German one's suspension were welded to the medal. Reverse: "The Medal of Merit, for those who showed loyalty and bravery" is written in raised letters. At the bottom, the Hijri year 1308 (1891) is written in a cartouche. Best wishes Demir

Hello Paul, a minute earlier than me? best wishes demir

Can you share it with us. thanks

They all have a similar obverse design, with the heart-shaped lower part of the tughra protruding to the left and all with the same hollow-point pin close to the hinge. Or the "Z" is Zeich, Berlin? While the other two are Zimmermann. Because, the tughra, date and pseudonym were attached with rivets. Best wishes Demir

Hello, The seller claimed this medal's maker is C.F. Zimmermann from Pforzheim. Then I found these two saved in my laptop : This one has a letter like 'Z'. And this one:

Is it possible to send Sedlatzek section of Sauerwald's books. Thanks

How come a company that produced tailor-made, beautiful medals also uses peculiar patterns, tughras, dates, and especially pseudonyms when using another style hallmark. The first type: The tughras of the FR. SEDLADZEK medals have been punched out to show the calligraphic lines. The pseudonym is round in shape. The numbers of the year are legible. Tughra, pseudonym, and dates were riveted to the main body. Hallmark is on the pin. The second type: The main pattern below the enamel is different. Some have no rivets, tughras, dates, and pseudonyms are shapeless, and hallmarks look handwritten or in another shape. IMO Sedladzek was a company ordering medals and selling them with her hallmark, preferably from CF Zimmermann of Pforzheim (for punched-out-tughra silver TWMs) and unknown producers of War Medals. Would you like to elaborate? Best wishes Now TYPE 2:

Hello Uwe, Thanks for the reply. I already know this thread of yours. IMO the strawberry design/pattern on the S&L generally is less pronounced than the medals with strawberry design and non-mirror image. So I think non-mirror-image medals were not S&L. Best wishes Demir

Hello Uwe, I asked this question and expected to get this answer. I also thought of E.S as a seller. Even the initials of a collector because apart from the two photos in our Groups, I have not seen any other E.S. anywhere else. Will you please tell me what you think about the medals with no mirror image (die-clash) but strawberry-seed and snail-egg toughra obverse? Or in other words; Did S&L produce medals without mirror image? I think they did not, but makers of Lüdenscheid used the same obverse design and attached their pin system during the production. Best wishes Demir

Hello, While I was checking some threads here and on other sites, I noticed that E.S marked Turkish War medals might have been produced by EUGEN SCHMİDHÄUSSLER, from PFORZHEIM instead of ERNST SCHNEIDER from LÜDENSCHEID. Both cities were known for their jewelry and medal productions. Demir

Thanks. So asterisk is for non-precious metals and "A"s are precious metals. I thought that it is for "Wien" like in the "Flugel A". The question was for a BSW made fancy Turkish War Medal. Here are the pictures. It was sold by emedals

Hello, can you tell me what these signs are. Thanks

1.OFFICIAL (Medals of the Imperial Mint in Istanbul or other domestic and/or foreign commissioned manufacturers or jewelers if there were any, and if there were, whether they were able to produce any) 2.1915 – 1945: FIRED GLASS ENAMEL MEDALS, CONTEMPORARY MEDALS MADE BY GERMAN AND AUSTRIANS 3.FROM 1945: COLD ACRYLIC ENAMEL MEDALS, REPLICA, COPY, REPRODUCTION. OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO NAME What about newly added words: FIRED GLASS ENAMEL MEDALS; and COLD ACRYLIC ENAMEL MEDALS,

BlackcowboyBS I agree with you. We are saying the same thing. My "contemporary medals" definition comprises your "contemporary secondary piece or private purchased contemporary duplicate etc" already. Best wishes Demir

3. Gentlemen, In my initial thread, I explained the special conditions of the TWM and accepted some period items unofficial but period or contemporary medals. Also, I explained why people who deserved the medals bought these. Normally, if one receives an original medal in its envelope or box and loses the medal applies to the military office to receive a new official one. If one cannot get a new one from the military office, one goes to a shop and buys a replica and puts it in the original box. Even though the fact is like this, we generally accept the special situation of the TWM and identify German and Austrian made medals as contemporary but, we cannot accept them and B.B&Cos as official medals. Still, I am open to any discussion based on facts. With my best wishes Demir

2. These are B.B.&Co and Turkish made TWMs. The last two are B.B.&Cos and others Turkish made. Please compare the Toughras and pseudonyms. Also compare B.B.&Cos with each other

Gentlemen, 1. These are fake copies of Turkish and Spanish UN Korea Medals and we call them fakes.

Hello gentlemen, Thanks for your contribution. (Sorry for the red capital letters. I just wanted to show my answers) Lew: "Since all foreign made TWMs are different from Turkish made example in any aspects, i.e. material, design, finish and shape etc., they can't be called replica or copy technically." I AGREE, TOUGHRAS AND PSEUDONYMS ON THE FOREIGN-MADE MEDALS WERE NOT WRITTEN AND STRUCK IN PROPERLY BECAUSE OF THE DIFFICULTY IN UNDERSTANDING THE CALLIGRAPHİC LETTERS OF THE TOUGHRA. SO NORMALLY THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED SOMETHING ELSE. BUT BECAUSE OF THE SPECIAL SITUATION OF THE WAR MEDAL, WE PREFER TO TRY TO NAME THEM SOMETHING ELSE. "... if any foreign made TWMs were ordered and handed out by the Turkish and foreign governments, they should be considered official award TWMs." I AGREE, BUT THERE IS A BIG “IF” "Origin(country or manufacturer) + Purpose(award piece, Private Purchase, collector/museum copy etc.) + Time frame (e.g. Austrian made + private purchase TWM + from 40s)" 1. OFFICIAL 2. 1915 – 1945: CONTEMPORARY MEDALS MADE BY GERMAN AND AUSTRIANS 3. FROM 1945: REPLICA, COPY, REPRODUCTION, OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO NAME BlackcowboyBS " 1. contemporary award pieces: 2. contemporary secondary pieces: 3 post-war award pieces: 4. second pieces purchased after end of war WW1: 5. productions after 1945: . 6. productions after 1945 on new machines and/or as casting, to fool the collectors. " I THINK MY ANSWER TO LEW COVERS THEM. MACHINES OLD OR NEW DO NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE FOR ME, SINCE THEY ARE UNOFFICIAL CONTEMPORARY MEDALS MADE BY GERMANS AND AUSTRIANS. ALSO, HOW CAN WE KNOW IF THE MACHINE IS NEW OR NOT, OR THE OWNER OF THE MEDAL HAD BEEN AWARDED OR HAD THE AWARD CERTIFICATE. v.Perlet "In the case of the Ottoman award produced e.g. in Germany by a known maker: Could only be categorized into being an: Orininal II. Reproduction I. Reproduction II." MY ANSWER TO LEW speedytop "... if any foreign made TWMs were ordered and handed out by the Turkish and foreign governments, they should be considered official award TWMs." Lew: That is also my opinion, see my earlier comment: "For me, this clearly includes the enameled medals from B.B.&Co, handed out to several German soldiers, before the end of the war." AS FAR AS I KNOW, BB&CO. WAS NOT COMMISSIONED BY ANY GOVERNMENT. SO THAT COMPANY ALSO FALLS UNDER THE CATEGORY CONTEMPORARY. "When a decoration is not an original, then it largely doesn't matter to me what it is called. It remains for me, as an old collector, the basic distinction between original, copy and fake/forgery. "What was not officially made in the award period is either a fake, made to deceive the buyer, or it is a copy, distinguishable from the original, and that is very different quality by different makers. And it is for me not important, for whom it was made. And I don't care whether the copy is called a reproduction, replica, replacement, duplicate, jeweler's copy, post-war copy or anything else." I AM TOTALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU, BUT YOU SAID IT, NOT ME To summarize my humble opinion on this subject; taking into consideration of the special delivery conditions of the War Medal, I already had softened my many years' early opinion some time ago and had come to a new conclusion and wrote you this initial thread. Receiving your views on the subject I refined my categorization as shown below, and I will use this in my new book “THE TURKISH WAR MEDALS” (Medals of 22 wars, their specifications, history, and many pictures and photos) 1.OFFICIAL (Medals of the Imperial Mint in Istanbul or other domestic and/or foreign commissioned manufacturers or jewelers if there were any, and if there were, whether they were able to produce any) 2.1915 – 1945: CONTEMPORARY MEDALS MADE BY GERMAN AND AUSTRIANS 3.FROM 1945: REPLICA, COPY, REPRODUCTION. OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO NAME Best wishes Demir

Hi, I would like to receive your views on: WAR MEDALS OF GERMAN AND AUSTRIAN COMPANIES German and Austrian officers and soldiers, who had the right to wear the War Medal but were not satisfied with the red-painted look of the Turkish-made War Medals, bought medals from the German or Austrian manufacturers and jewelers. Can we accept these Medals made by foreign manufacturers as original Medals? Can we say that these were replicas, copies, or forgeries because they were not struck by the Ottomans? We can say this for the Medals minted by the official Mint in Istanbul or minted by officially appointed companies but taking into consideration the unique situation of the War Medal, we cannot immediately say that they are replicas, copies, or forgeries. When a medal is awarded a document is normally given to the awardee with it. But when the Armistice took place on 30 October 1918 and the War ended for the Ottoman Empire all the government activities stopped. So for those, especially the Germans, who were either interned or left Turkey and have had the medal certificate but still cannot obtain the Medal, it has been hard to find an authority to claim the Medal, not only in Istanbul also in the allied capitals. When the people awarded could not be able to get their Medals officially, they were forced to apply to medal makers and jewelry stores. So, we can say that apart from the official medals produced by the officially named manufacturers during the war and immediately after, medals made by the foreign medal makers can be considered period medals. In addition, there is a document in the archives showing that a sample picture was sent to the Turkish Embassy in Berlin to be forwarded to a producer in Leipzig. We do not know the outcome of this correspondence. Ottoman Government might have ordered a certain number of medals from this company in Leipzig during the War. If the company was able to produce the Medals, we must consider these also as official Medals. On the other hand, the Medals sold from the end of WWI to 1945, we can accept them as contemporary, but from that date on we consider these as replicas. Regards Demir

Hello, A friend of mine used to have a 14 K pin made for the Turkish deputies. The pin is written in Latin script, instead of the old Arabic script, made for the Members of the Parliament. Since the Latin alphabet was adopted on 3.11.1928, it must have been produced after November 1928 and for the 3rd Parliament period (1927-31). It has the hallmark BB&C at the back. If this is the hallmark that belongs to the company named BB&Co, we can say that the firm was still in business during those years and could have supplied the War Medal pins or produced the Medal. Unfortunately, when I checked parliament archives, I could not find the document of the purchase or address of the company. The shape of the mark and the letters seem different, and "o" is missing from "Co" Can I have your opinions on this matter? Thanks Demir

Those are not official medals but souvenirs.

Dear Friends, While preparing a new general war medals book (23 medals) I found out that, a color picture of the War Medal was sent to the Turkish Embassy in Berlin in May 1915, to deliver to a medal maker in Leipzig. Any info about this producer in Leipzig? I also remember some time ago somewhere seeing a newspaper clip about an invitation to tender in Germany for the War Medal. Does anyone have any knowledge about this tender? Thanks Demir