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Everything posted by Ed_Haynes
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Mongolia ORDER OF THE RED COMBAT BANNER
Ed_Haynes replied to Vatjan's topic in People's Republic Mongolia
Great, Megan. The, for the Order of Literacy Valor and its successors, see: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4242 http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4236 http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4243 Guess I need to merge these threads, eh? Seek preexisting knowledge, Megan, and reinvent not the wheel, especially if that new "wheel" is square? -
Soviet Medal for Valor - opinions please
Ed_Haynes replied to hunyadi's topic in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations
Thanks, Igor! -
Mongolia ORDER OF THE RED COMBAT BANNER
Ed_Haynes replied to Vatjan's topic in People's Republic Mongolia
Megan, A few points: -- The 1926 version is small star, no number (post 125) -- The 1931 version is large star, numbered (post 126) -- The 1970 version is the post-1970 (?) type 2.1 of the post-1945 variety Yuri's stuff is, generally, good, but for Things Mongolian stay with the winners, this very site and forum! Best images, best information! (Wish Yuri were here.) There has been more good word done here (even with some core participants AWOL or just "strayed") in just a few months, than everything done previously. And, as I have said, the malignant disinformation of earlier sources becomes increasingly clear through what we've done here. Soon, we shall have more information, and it will be here first, and only (until someone steals it). -
Quite a distinguished group. Thanks for showing it!
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Mongolia ORDER OF THE RED COMBAT BANNER
Ed_Haynes replied to Vatjan's topic in People's Republic Mongolia
Actually, it is far more complex. See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4240&st=110 This, as I recall, is a Red Banner of Military Valor (1945--), the fourth major variety, a type 1.1. But in poor condition. To clarify and update the typology referenced above (with Battushig references): THE ORDER OF MILITARY VALOR (1926-31) 1st award (small star, 3 maker?s marks, no s/n) - A 21 2nd award (Arabic number ?2? at bottom) 3rd award (Arabic number ?3? at bottom) 4th award (Arabic number ?4? at bottom) ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR (1931-40) 1st award: -- Type 1 (large star, МОНДВОР, s/n No) - Low = 188/High = 613 - A 21.2 -- Type 2 (large star, МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР, s/n No) - Low = 318/High = ?? 2nd award (large star, Mongolian number 2) - Low = ??/High = 69 - A 21.3 3rd award (large star, Mongolian number 3, not seen?) - Low = ??/High = ?? 4th award - (large star, Mongolian number 4, not seen?) - Low = ??/High = ?? ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR (1940-45) 1st award: -- Type 1.1 (МОНДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) - Low = 110/High = ??? - A 22.1? -- Type 1.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) - Low= 44/High=212 -- Type 1.3.1 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) - Low = 306/High = 2401 -- Type 1.3.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN directly below screwpost) - Low = 1007/High = 2581 2nd award - Low = 53/High = 56 - A 22.2 3rd award - Low = ??/High = ?? - A 22.3 4th award (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom; 4 rivets) - Low = 74/High = 150 - A 22.4 ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR (1945--) 1st award: -- Type 1.1 (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) - Low = 50/High = 2794 - A 23.1 -- Type 1.2 (as above, but with Cyrillic ?B? mintmark) - Low = 1332/High = 1901 -- Type 2.1 (Pinback 3 rivets; SN at 12 o'clock) - Low = 3160/High = 4449 - A 24.1 -- Type 2.2 (Pinback 2 rivets; SN at 5 o'clock) - Low = 4685/High = 5380 -- Type 3.1 (pinback, bronze) - Low = 5512/High = 5607 - A 24.2 -- Type 3.2 (pinback, bronze, unnumbered, escapee?) 2nd award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 40 awarded?) - Low = 12/High = 398 - A 23.2 3rd award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 10-15 awarded?) - Low = 5/High = 200 - A 23.3 4th award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 4-5 awarded?) - Low = 3/High = 86 - A 23.4 -
My guess is that Yuri lifted from Herfurth or from the Russian translation (and that I think was Herfurth's source too?) of Ц. Tэрбиш, Бнмaу-ын одон, мeдaлЬ aлдaр цол туунийг aнх хуртэгчигд (Ulanbaatar: 1977). Bat used this too, but found it very flawed and needed to consult the records. This is certainly the place where Herfurth lifts many of his images.
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I have been told -- but cannot confirm -- that there are some very nice (= very dangerous) fake Sukhbaatar Orders coming out of Russia. Maybe these, maybe others?
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THE absolute MUST-HAVE!!! Try Collect Russia (Igor) or Nota Bene (Alexei). http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=13919 http://home.netcom.com/~merezhko/othercoun...s.html#Mongolia item # 133
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Battushig shows it on page 45. As yet, I do not have the Real Thing to show. Working on it. Battushig's book, by the way, is about to fade into collectible status in its own right. The author's stock is depleted. Be advised. While a 2nd edition is in contemplation, don't expect it anytime soon.
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Yes, there is always a problem where someone who has not done the research (and even lacks the basic skills to do that research) says something, it gets quoted, that quote gets requoted (always without attribution, by the way), and the poison of ignorance and misinformation spreads and spreads. If someone (who could read them) had just looked at the records . . . !! When the award rolls become available, many things will be clarified, many "experts" repudiated.
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Battushig (p. 23) says ". . . the presidium of the State Lower Assembly decided to create a new supreme state order -- the Order of Sukhbaatar on September 27th 1945." Much as I may respect those other authorities, I take his word for it until someone does more real research. I suspect that 1941 date is from Herfurth, who says many things that cannot be supported.
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Yeah, Spink does a good, if VERY expensive, job of mounting. You were lucky that they (1) got the order right and (2) didn't flip the ribbons that are not palindromes! My experience on these two fronts has been way less than successful or satisfactory. They don't know, won't ask, and can't be told. They are Spink.
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Soviet Medal for Valor - opinions please
Ed_Haynes replied to hunyadi's topic in Russia: Soviet Orders, Medals & Decorations
Yes, this one could tell a really interesting story! Lovely. -
Mongolia Serial Number Database
Ed_Haynes replied to Ed_Haynes's topic in People's Republic Mongolia
All over, I fear. Until someone goes thropugh the rolls in detail, we have no chance of making much sense of it; and "someone" will be starting on the rolls this fall. See the type and serial number ranges in the PS thread (no significant updates, but I updated anyway). Often (inaccurately) called "Victory over Japan" (A 41). -
Update on typology and serial number ranges. The confusion thrives. Type 1 (Screwback; МОНДВОР mintmark; long oval design with two red banners, ~300 awarded) - Low = 316/High = 792 Type 2.1 (Screwback; upward-curved МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; Uighur; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) - Low = 9/High = 2831 Type 2.2 (Screwback; downward-curved МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; Uighur; SN directly below screwpost) - Low = 1151/ High = 2878 Type 2.3 (Screwback; no mintmark; Uighur; SN at 7 o?clock) - Low = 1562/High = ???? Type 2.4 (Screwback; hand-engraved МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; Uighur; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) - Low = 1710/High = 1776 Type 3.1 (Screwback; Cyrillic; slightly concave reverse; SN at 7 o'clock) - Low = 2/High = 6952 Type 3.2 (Screwback; Cyrillic; flat reverse; SN directly below screwpost) - Low = 5094/High = 9941 Type 3.3 (Screwback; Cyrillic; flat reverse; SN at 6 o'clock) - Low = 10007/High = 15000 Type 4.1 (Pinback, silver) - Low = 15015/High = 30426 Type 4.2 (pinback, bronze) - Low = 31650/High = 39785 Type 4.3 (pinback, bronze, no serial number, unawarded escapee?)
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A simple little medal.
Ed_Haynes replied to ChrisB's topic in Great Britain: Orders, Gallantry, Campaign Medals
Lovely tale woven around a simple medal. This is something that many who don't collect British (as broadly defined) medals sometimes miss. Each medal, being named, is unique, quite literally. And each has the tale of an individual wrapped up in that chunk of metal and length of ribbon. And, often, this a powerful (though sometimes mundane) tale, but it can almost always be dug out by diligent research. And often -- especially for folks such as those I focus on in the Indian Army -- this medal is their only memorial, their sole remembrance. Otherwise, they are lost to history, unremembered. Without making it sound sappy, this research is indeed, as you have put it so rightly, a "mission" and a duty. Thanks for sharing. -
Yes, I saw that. This is why I said what I did and it is part of what makes the document so interesting. This is part of what makes me want the reference so I can see this the next time I'm at the PRO. Presumably, similar sheets exist for other allied countries.
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Interesting, Igor. Do you have the reference to this? These seem to be wartime awards, not Civil War. We need to separate the two sets of numbers.
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US Army chevrons of old - some of mine
Ed_Haynes replied to David S's topic in United States of America
No, I was thinking of the cadet officer chevrons that are worn by a wide range of military academies (USMA, VMI, Citadel, etc.). But what you show are just bizarre beyone belief!! Wow! -
US Army chevrons of old - some of mine
Ed_Haynes replied to David S's topic in United States of America
Is it possible that posts 4-7 are military academy chevrons, rotated 180 degrees? -
My one and only EGYPTIAN ribbon bar
Ed_Haynes replied to David S's topic in Middle East & Arab States
Nice ones, David! See also: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14264&st=30 and the following post.