Daniel Murphy

I had considered this when one was shown without the name, however on most I have seen the name stamps seem to have similar patina to the rest of the stamps on that particular piece. As an example look at the one that started this thread, The M.Hansen does not look any newer than the rest of the markings. Were they done in the same jig, no. M. Hansen was undoubtedly the manufacturer and those he sold at retail would have had his name on them. However if he also sold them to other retailers the name would be absent. I have a Godet made double hook EK 1. Every detail matches the Godet to a T, but it is only marked "800" because it was supplied to another retailer for sale. Is it a Godet? Yes. If you owned a "Walmart", would you want to sell something with a "Target" label on it? H*ll no! That is the reason we see private purchase EK's without the maker mark. Dan Murphy

I think that Mr. Floch should be stood up against a wall and be stoned with all of the fakes he has perpetrated on the hapless collector over the years. Yea, got me too. Dan Murphy

Thanks guys, So the opinion is that this is 1914 NC EK2, War Aid Cross, RAO4 (or medal ?), 1870-71 war medal (?), and KW1C? My understanding is that retired senior NCO's were the ones who became Beamter. If this were an aging Beamter, the RAO would be the medal instead of the order, right? He would still have some sort of LS if retired though. Could it be an aging reserve or landwehr officer with a RAO4? Either way I would expect some sort of long service award either regular or Landwehr. Just trying to clear up some questions I have. I am no good at figuring these things out. Dan Murphy

Oh yea, I almost forgot. It came with this as well. This whole group surfaced out of the woodwork in South Carolina. I got it off ebay of all places. Dan Murphy

And here are his decorations and awards listed. I think he did pretty good for a private. Dan Murphy

...Which list these battles. There are quite a few, he got around. Dan Murphy

It came with these to Kannonier Severin Maier of the Baden 14th Field Artillery regiment. Dan Murphy

Now you have all got me started. Here is my only Baden medal bar, but it is a nice one. Dan Murphy

Darn, it is a stamped catch. I never noticed that. I should know this by now, Never say definitely or always etc. on this stuff. Dan Murphy

All, I have seen some of the miracles worked by the members of this forum. Is there a possibility this can be id'd? Perhaps a medical officer? There are the 1870 NC Ek2, (Possible Crown Order on the war aid ribbon), RAO, 1870-71 medal and the Kaiser Wilhelm centenary medal. The reason I believe it is all pre 1914 is the backer. There was never any wool backing and it is definitely not post '34. Dan Murphy

Bill, Nice find, I can understand why the seller thought that. The oakleaves are the same style as the CD's. Darn shame it is another of the many unknown makers, as is CD. Dan Murphy

Hansen was a manufacturer, a house jeweler to be correct. The Hansen firm still exists with branches in Hamburg and Kiel. Kiel was the original location and is still listed on some internet sites as "Hofjuwelier M.Hansen". The firm was founded in Kiel in 1814 and in 1888 Marten Heinrich Hansen (The "M. Hansen")became a house jeweler to Kaiser Wilhelm II. Today they manufacture fine jewelry and deal in fine silverware and timepieces. Apparently a new member of the family took over in 2005. That may be why some of the old stock items have been disposed of. Do I think the info that they are still in business hurts the Hansen EK's? No, I still want one. Here is a link to the website. Dan Murphy Hansen GMBH and H. Hansen Hofjuwelier

The only thing I can think of is that this was the original owners way of showing it was won during wartime. Vets have been known to do crazy unauthorized things with their medals, attachments that do not belong there, attachments that do belong that are missing, medals worn on wrong ribbons etc. Once men were out of the service, they wore them on civilian clothes as they saw fit. I agree that it was probably on a medal bar at one time, however the original owner may have felt it was easier to wear on his civvies like this. Whatever the story, it is a fine piece and a testament to the personality of the original owner. Tom, a similar pin was issued with WW1 French Croix du Guerre's etc. It was of steel, but had two pins for wearing on the uniform. I believe this is an earlier one off type piece. Dan Murphy

Ok guys, here is what I have been able to deduce from the post's so far. Post 1 , Late Imperial Period 1910-1919. Post 2 , 1920's. Posts 4,5,6,10 , Imperial Period ( Early and Late). The rosette was considered to be 1870-1900 awards. Post 8 , 20's to 40's. Posts 9,18 , 30's to 40's. Post 11 , Left, late imperial, 1910-1919. Right, 20's. Post 12 , Left, Early imperial1890-1910. Right, 20's. The time periods I have used are just possible examples. Now, what do you think? Dan Murphy

Here is the back of a double EK mini. the presence of the HK ribbon says it is post '34. I would guess that Godet lost it's Koeniglich Hofjuweliere status when the Kaiser abdicated. When most of the reigning houses of Germany fell, there was no longer such a thing as a Royal Jeweler. Godet probably used up the button backs they had and then used the different design on new production buttons. The other possibility is that they changed when the name was changed to Eugen Godet and Co. sometime around 1924. I have never seen anything marked as such,(have you?) perhaps he still marked them J. Godet since the name was so well known. Andrea's site states the change to Gebruder Godet was in the late 20's or early 30's. I think the fact that Ralphs mini with the 1936 Olympic medal and the 1939 KVK 2 are on a button marked J.Godet & Sohn shows that there was an overlapping period of use of all of these buttons. There may be no way to form a definitive timeline for the usage of the various buttons. Dan Murphy

I have traced my fathers family (Irish) back to 1758 here in the colonies. There was also some American Indian back before the 1750's. My aunt has traced various maternal branches of the family back to 1660's (Irish), and 1100's (English) and 1700's (German). Since I am mainly Black Irish, there is also a little Spanish dating from 1588. Just call me a Heinz 57. Dan Murphy

Chip, I was just joking about the photo, which is a very nice one, I might add. I have seen those shoes in several photos that I have. I knew the french had barracks shoes, and I had thought they were something similar. The one great thing about period photos, is that you can see men wearing items and doing things you might have thought odd. I have had people tell me, the German soldier never wears his collar unhooked or never stands with his hands in his pockets. Yet I have seen photos of them doing both. Thanks for the info. Dan Murphy

I think all of the above are IVI's, I just wish I had one. And a few of the other rare ones . I have always wanted one of each, but I only have about 25. Dan Murphy

I believe it is a '57 version. The quality does not even come close to 39-45 construction and nowhere near 1918 quality. The paint, the poor quality of the frame finishing (if there was any) all points to 57 for me. Dan Murphy

Here is a link to his museum website. Ther museum is called the History on Wheels Museum. There are no photos, but it gives location directions and a description of the contents of the museum. Dan Murphy History on Wheels Museum

Chip, I saw what looks like tresse too. However there is no tresse or rank buttons on the collar. There are also loops for something that is not there, but they look too far apart to be an EK. Strange. He is also wearing those odd side lace shoes that you see in some photos. Ok, I got it. His head wound was so bad that his original uniform was blood soaked. So they gave him an enlisted tunic and he salvaged his shoulderboards and put them on it to show his rank. While he was being operated on, a medical orderly stole his boots and all they had to fit him was those sorry POS shoes. He is shown here complaining to the doctor and they are laughing at him before he gets on the hospital train for home. Dan Murphy

In 1991, when in England, a friend took me to Tony Olivers. The collection of vehicles, even at that time, was extremely impressive as was their condition. Tanks, Armored cars, staff cars, ambulances, motorcycles, and even Bikes and para scooters. I can see them all as if it were yesterday, Dan Murphy

Chris, September 1916 and April 1918. Dan Murphy

Most WW1-1920's produced crosses are about 42mm. The TR 1939 pattern and later made 1914 patterns are about 44mm. That plus the fact the the width of the arms at the edge is wider. The LDO required all crosses to be made to the same dimensions 1914 or 1939. Since this a rather one off type of screwback with a thin threaded post attached to the cross, I doubt someone could have produced a piece that the Meybauer parts would fit. I would love to see a picture of this broken down showing the markings. Dan Murphy

Use the one you have. Just be careful and don't stick it in the dishwasher. I have used my regimental stein a couple times. BTW that glass is a beauty. You don't see many of the glasses, I guess almost everyone went for the stein since it was more impressive. Dan Murphy