Daniel Murphy

Here is EK 1, EK 2 Buttonhole mini. D*mned Honor Cross ruined it.

1870 Non Combattant EK2, 2 piece hollow silver and enameled. Both sides are the same. Weitze just recently listed one of these. The price surprised me. Dan Murphy

Micha, Beautiful condition on them both, I wish I had a few like that. Joe, you can have the clamshell ( I already have one) , I'll take the other one. Dan Murphy

Accidental Duplicate entry deleted Dan Murphy

Interesting he was awarded the officers medal from Saxe-Meiningen, but the Merit Cross of the Bulgarian MMO. Would he have been an Offizierstellvertreter or a senior NCO who later became a full officer? Dan Murphy

An order without swords made before 1916 and still unawarded would be Gold, would it not? Since this is a silver gilt piece, this would appear to be just another way of attaching the swords. The rivets appear to be bronze, perhaps this was a later war way to speed up production when so many of these were being awarded. Was Godet an official supplier of the HHO to the Order Chancellery? If not this could even be post war. Still a Godet and a nice piece for the collection. Dan Murphy

There should an International Militaria Collectors Police that would hunt these people downlike Interpol. You get caught detroying a historical item, firing squad! Yea, just like that. Dan Murphy

Andreas, A super group, it is extremely rare for a grouping to have survived so long. To have a picture of the recipient wearing it is icing on the cake. Ed, I have seen yours before, but it is still a stunner. The condition is so much more than anyone can dream of, for being that old. Dan Murphy

I have a 2nd Garde Uhlan Friedensrock for a Leutnant that was seconded to the air service. The feldgrau wool is so coarse as to be almost overcoat wool. I actually removed some wool from a mothed 1917 overcoat to do a couple of small repairs on it. The wool matched perfectly in color and texture. The red Cuffs and collar with their fine gold bullion Litzen, on the other hand, is very high quality (pre war quality) wool. There is no doubt in my mind that my uniform and your shoulder board were manufactured in 1917-18, since the quality of the wool during that time was poor. On issue uniform wool, nettle and other fibers were being used to "stretch" the wool. This is one of the reasons that the late war uniforms are so dark, the ersatz fibers were hard to dye and a darker dye was required. As far as the early red wool, many people do not know that half of the wool manufactured in 1915 was for the prewar "dunkelblau" uniforms. The retailers expected the war would be over very shortly, and that there would be a need for more pre war type uniforms. This may be one of the reasons for the authorization of the Friedenrocks. All of that wool sitting unused would have been a waste of a valuable resource. When the Friedenrocks were ordered instead of a Waffenrock or Bluse, it saved a certain amount of Feldgrau wool, which was needed for officers and soldiers in the field. This may not seem like much material, but multiplied by the tens of thousands (or more) of uniforms made, this was a considerable savings. Dan Murphy

For a lot of this information, I was relying on the memory of the gentleman I got this grouping from. In most cases his memory was excellent. His telling of the family history was only slightly added to when I found the family genealogy. He knew the name of the son that died in Normandy, started with an E. I found a reference to an Egge Heeren, (an old family name, which was also the name of the grandson he went to college with in the 60's) being killed at Normandy. When I asked the gentleman, he said "yes that was him" The son now known as Erhard, served in the Reichswehr and then in the Wehrmacht as a company grade officer before he was actually killed in Normandy. I know nothing of the other son, the gentleman never mentioned him when we spoke. Seeing that the Professor was married in 1910, I had surmised that the son would have most likely, have had to be born in 1911- 1912. This was using 20 years of age when he started service. (I know it is possible to join as early as 17). At least now, I have a correct name and date of birth so that perhaps, I may be able to get his records as well. Thank you all (especially Rick) for helping me get some of this mis-information corrected. Rick, in this book "Wer Ists" are there any entries for the sons Erhard and Friedrich? Dan Murphy

Here he is seated at the opposite end of the table as Hauptmann d.R and commanding officer of the 11th Comp. at Boiry in mid 1915. Notice the his nose and what could be more scars on his face. He did fence at Gottingen. Dan Murphy

His Wehrstammbuch entry for the award reads "Gold Treudienstkreuz 26.10.38" At this time he was a Hauptmann d.R. in the Reichs Luftschutz Bund. The entry from the book that you showed was him, could you translate what it says. Some I can understand, most not. His family kept most of the family items including medals. His vast amount of personal and family papers were placed in large piles in the yard and burned, no one in the family wanted them. In addition to the spiked helmet with the case and two camo covers, I have his 1907 Feldrock dated 1909 and marked to the 11th Company of I.R.164, His OYV enlisted belt, His mint dress Feldbinde, two additional should boards, a photo album from 1914-15 showing the 164th mobilizing and in the field. I have two photos of him from the regimental history which he helped write. The first is as second in command of the 11th Co. in August/ September 1914. Hptmn. Assmann was killed on Sept 7th of that year. Dan Murphy

Glenn and Joe, Thanks, for commisioning info guys. I had thought that a one year volunteer would have been commisioned shortly after his one year of service was completed. Therefore with that and the lack of a reserve (landwehr) cross on the helmet (It does not appear to have ever had one), I had assumed (I know dangerous territory) he was a fahnrich. His WW2 records confused me even more. In reference to his earlier service, at times he was referred to as Leutnant and at other times as Leutnant der Reserve. He joined I.R. 82 at Gottingen on April 1, 1900. If you have any more info on him, I would very much appreciate your letting me know. Another piece of the puzzle solved. BTW, the cockade rings are silver. Dan Murphy

Professor Heeren's father, Robert Heeren fought for Hannover in the 1866 war and later for Prussia in 1870. His grandfather, Friedrich Heeren served alongside British forces in the Crimea and later in India. His maternal great grandfather Ernst Levin Scharnhorst was an officer in the 2nd Line Battalion of the Kings German Legion dating from 1803. He served in Denmark, was on the HMS Salisbury, and attempted to help save the men on board, but was one of the few survivors. He later served in the Peninsular Campaign and was wounded at Salamanca. He was killed while storming the outer works of the castle at Burgos, Spain in 1812. Upon learning of their fathers death, his grandfather Ferdinand Andreas Karl Scharnhorst and his great uncle August Scharnhorst (13 and 12 years old respectively) both traveled to Helgoland to join the legion themselves. They later received more training in England and both received Patents as Ensign's in 1813. Ferdinand was assigned to the 5th Line battalion and fought through France and was at the Battle of Waterloo. At Waterloo the 5th Battalion was decimated by two haevy cavalry attacks and only 18 men were unwounded. He was one of them and was discharged in 1816 at the age of 17. He later served as an officer in a Guard Regiment of Hannover until 1866. He received the English Waterloo Medal and the Hannoverian Guelphin House Order. When he died in 1893, he was the last surviving officer of the Kings German Legion. Last photo, of the inside. I hope not to have bored you all too much. Dan Murphy

His only son, Egge Heeren, was killed in Normandy on July 31, 1944, the Grandson was this mans son. The last entry in Professor Heeren's Wehrpass is dated 1943 and states he is authorized to wear the uniform of Pz. Gren. Rgt. 74, the regiment his son was in at the time.

Here are his decorations and awards. Landwehr service medal II Class (12 year) on Aug. 31, 1912 1914 Iron Cross II Class on Sept. 16, 1914 1914 Schaumburg-Lippe Loyal Service Cross on Dec. 16, 1914 1914 Brunswick Merit Cross II Class on Dec. 30, 1914 Silver Wound Badge on June 4, 1918 1914 Iron Cross I Class on Aug. 25, 1919 ?Hindenburg? Honor Cross for combattants on Nov. 15, 1934 Gold (25 Year) Service Cross on Oct. 26, 1938 1939 War Merit Cross II Class with Swords on Feb. 4, 1942

Professor Heeren was thrice wounded in WW1, On August 16, 1914 during the battle for the Fortress City of Namur, Professor Heeren was wounded by a shell splinter, which tore away part of the left side of his nose. On Sept. 10, 1915 Professor Heeren was again wounded in the face and ears by shell splinters.He returned to the front on May 12, 1916 and was then wounded in the left forearm by a rifle bullet on June 27, 1916. In October 1916 he was sent to command the II Battalion of Infantry Replacement Troops at Warsaw and served out the rest of the war in that capacity. In 1934 he joined the Luftschutz as a Hauptmann z.V. and in 1940 was transferred to the Luftwaffe in command of a Luftwaffe Construction Battalion. He retired in 1943 as a Major d. R.. Here is another view of the helm.

After graduating from Gottingen University in 1900, later Professor, Heeren joined Infantry Regt. 82 as a One Year Volunteer. In 1901 after completeing his OYV training, he arranged a transfer to I.R. 164 which was descended from units of the Kings German Legion, which his Great Grandfather, Grandfather and Great Uncle had fought in. Professor Heeren received his Patent as Leutnant der Reserve in 1904. He then pursued his career as a teacher and later Professor. He was promoted to Oblt. d. R. in 1913 and was called up with mobilization in 1914. Here is a close up of the wappen,

Mike, Here you go, this was the best I could do at night inside with bad lighting. This was with a uniform grouping I got that belonged to Hauptmann d. R. Arnold Wilhelm Friedrich Ferdinand Heeren 1876-1974. The grouping was acquired from the immediate family by a fine gentleman and friend of the Heeren family after the Mr. Heeren passed in 1974. He went to college with the grandson of Mr. Heeren and met him numerous times. I have his entire family history, his geneaology back to 1580, and his military records from the Bundesarchiv.

I agree, I do not like them on a medal bar. I realize they have their place, but I have passed on medal bars because of it. Say I want to display a medal bar on a pre war or wartime tunic. I think the HK just does not belong there, because by 1934 the veteran was wearing another uniform or had no reason to wear his old one. I have to say, I have few medal bars due to this. I would rather have Freikorps, or 1920's veteran medals than the HK, at least the vet could still be wearing the same uniform in the early 20's. However, If I was ever to find that one of a kind, collection making bar, (like the evil twins get) that I could afford I would still buy it if it had an HK on it.

I do not believe , in general, that imperial is undervalued. The well known items, Pour le Merite, Iron Cross etc. are at record levels. However the obscure order from a small principality that was only awarded 8 times, languishes at a fraction of the price of the well knowns. Because most people do not do their home work and have no idea of what it is. The collector who does gets what they feel is a deal on a rare item. I say enjoy it, do not look at it as an investment because when you got to sell it, those same people or others just like them will say"Huh, whats that?". Price is determined by rarity and demand. If there is rarity and no demand, good luck ever selling it. If an item is common and there is intense demand for every little variation or maker mark, you will have what we see now with TR. If I collected TR, there is still no way I am going to pay $300 for an IAB, PAB etc. I don't care how nice it is or whether Detlev said it was the best he had ever seen, they made millions of them. I say collect what you enjoy, and if you do not enjoy what you are collecting (even if it is looked at as a good investment) dump it and go collect those Star Wars figurines, baseball cards, (insert one) you have had your eye on. I love collecting imperial German, and I will continue to collect it until I get tired of it or I am dead. Does it have value? Right now and hopefully in the future, Yes. 20 years from now if there was a stock market crash (God forbid) it would have no value because everyone would be preoccupied with paying their rent, putting food on the table etc. Would it have value then? Little (bullion value) or none. Meanwhile, there are a few dealers, who do not do their homework either. And when they slip up I am happy to take the item off their hands for a tenth of the current value. Just like I got my russian Jeweler made Kulm Cross.

Lets see. Cruciform spike base, convex chinscales, all silver. I would say that is is for a Bavarian Chevauxleger senior NCO. The scales look good to me, this type with rivets showing would not be used by an officer, but on an NCO, OK. The perlring and the lack of star studs shows it is NCO. I do not know what regt. yet. Still a nice piece and the first one you displayed is super. You do not find them unpolished and in that condition very often. Keep this up and I will have to pull out my Id'd minty 164th with the Waterloo bandeau. Dan Murphy

I got into imperial items as a result of the study of WW1 itself. It was the most technically advanced war to that date. Machine guns, aeroplanes, modern artillery, but all of this technology, did not prevent war or shorten it. It just made the common soldier suffer more than in any previous war. At the front lines the soldiers ate, slept, and lived among the bodies of the dead and the filth. In previous wars at least there was a chance to recover the wounded and the dead. In WW1 this was very often impossible. One only has to visit and look at the memorials to the missing. 55,000+ at Ypres, 20,000+ at Passchendaele, 60, 000+ on the Somme. And this for the British and Commonwealth forces. Not by any means the largest army in the war. The same goes for the French at Verdun, One visit to the French Cemetery and monument near Fluery and you see the same thing. Under the floor are the remains of vast tens of thousands of unknowns, who are still being found to this day. Their remains are visible to those who look through the windows as you enter. All wars are horrible but this was worse than most. So I decided to remember those who fought by collecting and preserving the uniforms, field gear, headwear, medals and orders, personal items, documents etc. Almost all are gone now and this (plus a few memories) is all that remains to show that some of them ever existed. There are many collecting U.S. items and I have always had an interest in German items, so therefore I chose to remember the other side. They were no less brave. I read somewhere that a soldier who diminishes his enemies fighting ability, diminishes his own acomplishments when victorious. Of course, the beauty, quality and variety of the items is one reason why I still collect Imperial German, it is not the only reason. Dan Murphy

So are these all real or what. The godet mark on the first one looks a little too new, there appears to be flash around the mark like it was never polished after being stamped. Not a good sign on a piece supposedly from the a house jeweler and probably the ultimate maker of quality items. The second one I kind of (50/50) like since the patina is worn only around the propeller and it looks like it has been together a long time and was done by a pro. The back and pin/catch combo looks almost like a Schaper but without the cutout on the crown and the loop. Definitely not a Meybauer pin. The last one is the only one I really like. Good period looking tarnish around the hinge and catch, the engraving looks period and was not done yesterday judging from the tarnish in the engraving. And appears to be a custom made silver gilt piece. Am I right? And if so what did I win? Choice badge? Yea sure. Dan Murphy

I will take mine to the jeweler tommorow. If it is bronze gilt, no harm, since that is what I bought it as. There was definitely more than one maker of these, just because stogies gold one does not match a wagner marked (issued) piece, does not mean it is not gold. If mine is not gold, it does not have any effect on stogies piece since it may be made from the same dies but just in bronze. A man who wanted a second piece in 1915-1916 could go to a jeweler and as long as they had a supply of gold and the dies they would make it. Personally, If he says it was gold, that is good enough for me. I will let you know for sure one way or the other. Dan Murphy