Streptile

Just a clarification: I said it was possibly a zweitstück but more probably a good RAO4 that has been faked into an RAO4X.

In my opinion this piece is most probably a good Red Eagle Order that has had swords attached to it by a collector some time long after the war. One can't discount the possibility it is a Spangenstück but it strikes me as farfetched, and anyway: who wants a Spangenstück for $700? Here is an original award type RAO4X with correct swords, hollow gold and screwed into the order's cylinder.

Very fine piece Beau, congratulations.

Thank you Christophe. The gold Godet (JGS) and Wagner (W) Knights Crosses both have cases: Some of the minis came in small white Godet boxes with gold trim. I would love to find a case for the Komturkreuz but I think this will be impossible.

Thank you Daniel

Here is a selection of Hohenzollern House Orders in different sizes and classes. All pieces are silver gilt, and a few different makers are shown here.

Hi Beau, Thanks very much for taking those photos. That is a great example of the type: a J. Godet piece made in the 1930s in gilt silver and marked JG&S 938. There are many unknowns about these pieces in terms of construction and types once you get into the postwar years but that is one of the well-known and very interesting (if not common) types. Much appreciated!

Thanks for the help Claudio! It would have been very interesting indeed if Stogieman's piece was gold, because it would have changed some things I thought I knew about Godet's manufacturing during the interwar period. It's for this reason that I was so interested. Bronze-gilt makes much more sense even if it is less exciting. Here is one of my lovely gold pieces by Godet, which I believe I have shown here already, next to its younger brother in silver-gilt. Obviously the tooling on these pieces (which both predate 1918) is totally different from the 1930s pieces.

I believe I have solved this mystery. Claudio has confirmed to me that the piece Stogieman shows is the same piece he has. He still has it. He bought it from Stogieman many years ago as a bronze-gilt piece (for a bronze-gilt price). Since Detlev Niemann was unlikely to confuse bronze for gold, the explanation is most probably that Stogieman mislabeled his photos and posted his old bronze-gilt piece as a gold piece here by accident. Stogie and Claudio, thanks for all the info and help! Too bad, as I was hoping for some exciting news about 1930s-era Godet pieces made in gold. But great pieces shown here anyway. Beau, any chance you still have that bar? I'd be very interested to see the HOH3X and especially the marks.

Thanks Stogieman. I will ask Claudio if he still has the piece and maybe he can settle the mystery for us. A real gold one of that type would be quite a find. Stay tuned!

Anyway, it's a beautiful piece from the 1930s, but I sort of doubt it was gold. Almost all pieces of this type (shown by Stogieman) were made of bronze-gilt (some very few were silver gilt). Here is an identical piece. It's actually shown in this thread, although it's a few years old. The piece is/was Claudio's. It is bronze-gilt. Looking closer now, I think that Claudio's bronze-gilt piece is the same one shown by Stogieman. Here, also from this thread, is what I believe is the same type on a bar owned by Beau, but in silver-gilt. All of these would have been 1930s-era private purchase types by J. Godet und Sohn. The silver gilt ones are pretty uncommon! Beau, do you still have this lovely bar? If so, I'd love to see larger photos of the HOH3X.

Very nice piece Beau. Thank you for the information. Stogieman, I gather you no longer have that piece then?

Very interesting piece. That is a highly unusual type to see in gold (in fact I've never seen one). Can you please share the weight?

Well, I can confirm that the man in the photo is Karl Otto Gotthard von Borcke. When I bought this photo, I thought I knew who owned the bar. A local collector, older and totally offline, owns a bar with the same combination of awards as the one shown in the photo. However, upon close inspection this past weekend, I can see that the bar is not the same one shown in the photo. It is very close, but the local bar has three (not four) Gefechtsspangen. That said, I did manage to locate a photo of von Borcke's bar, shown below. The story I have been told (by a member of another forum) is that the bar shown above was sold by Detlev Niemann attributed to a man with the name "von Borcke." (Turns out the bar was stolen and the buyer returned it to Niemann, who returned it to the original owner, who still has it, but that's immaterial.) You can see that Borcke eventually mounted his Sachsen-Meiningen award. But the rest of the bar clearly matches the photo. Now I will see if I can buy the local 7-place bar with three Gefechtsspangen, which still needs a name. Stay tuned. PS: If you own von Borcke's bar, or know who does, please contact me!

Interesting Godet case. According to my research, J. Godet moved from the Schloßfreiheit address in about 1891, so that can date the case and perhaps also the piece, if that's possible.

Forgive me if this was posted in one of the links above but I haven't looked through them all. A very neat photo of this type of cross in 1915:

Deruelle's, Don's, and the first one posted by Thomas (Homerjey) appear to be all from the same dies.

Thank you Tilo. I will update this post with any new information.

Very fine cross, congratulations. The bronze examples never exhibit this kind of workmanship and detail. Do you have any documentation on the recipient? Just curious.

I agree with you.

Thank you Hermann. Very interesting. Hi Tilo, I see the photo is labeled "von Borcke" but do you know if this is Karl Otto Gotthard von Borcke (1847 - 1917)? Or do you just know the last name? Thank you for any clarification.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for the replies. von Borcke, huh? Most Americans know this name because of the famous Heros von Borcke (born 1835, German bio here), Lieutenant Colonel of the CSA (Confederate States of America) during the Civil War. Could Heros be the father of Otto?

Thank you all for your posts. Hi Tilo, That is exactly what I thought I saw. Does Daniel still post on this forum?

Hello all, I am posting here today in the hopes that you can help me identify this man. As far as I can tell he is from a Saxon duchy (maybe Sachsen-Meiningen?). He saw service in 1866, 1870 and then again in 1914. His bar shows: 1870 EK2 / WHS / RAO4 / KO3 / DA / 1870 KDM / 1866 Kreuz / ZM I'm not sure what his topmost neck order is either. I have an idea but I will refrain from posting it so as to avoid influencing others' eyes. Looking forward to hearing your ideas. Thank you in advance for any help. Trevor