Kriztofer

Thanks Greg After comparing your example as well I would say the one I posted is ok, based on the aging pattern, date & features. My concern was the wreath and talons but, the lack of detail could be from wear? I see what appears to be some extra or overflow material around the edges which concerns me but, the area of the wreath where it's attached to the date is identical to the ones posted here. Could be the photo? I'm still waiting for some better photos. Thanks again guys for your help on this one. Chris

Thanks for the info so far, are there any more Spange collectors out there who could provide their examples or knowledge? Chris

I see what you mean Jim, but now I'm confused! Oliver's example exhibits the same characteristics as the one I posted i.e. talons and a small amount of material overflow. Could this be wear/result of the flash or is there a known repro of the Mayer. I understand that there are variations of most makes, could this be one of them also? I would really like to learn more about these pieces but the information available is scarce! It would be nice to have a database containing all the proven types in one convenient location. Chris

I forgot to ask guys. Do I understand correctly that Mayer produced the 1st & 2nd class both with and without veins and that the without versions were intermediate models?

Thanks Oliver, that's just what I needed to see. Chris

Hi Jim No chance of a reverse shot I'm afraid, the seller doesn't want to break the pins. Funny that you mention Mayer, the only vague comparison to the talons was on a 1st class Mayer Spange. I share your view about it being a bit fuzzy, I thought it might have been the photos he sent me or wear. My concern is around the tips of the oak leaves where they overlap onto the next one, there is an unusual space? Do you have an L/18 for comparison? Chris

Hi Gents Does anyone recognize this model of Spange? I'm about 90% sure that it's a good one BUT, I can't match up the talons from any listed on the forums & the wreath bothers me a little. Any ideas guys. Chris

I was just comparing the above cross against actual 1870 period models and it does appear to be a close match, not 100% but at least 95%. The pin is a little off but the hinge is the same type used on period models. The crown is also a very close match to examples posted in Previtera's book. Is there a recession ? You wouldn't think so if you watch the items rapidly disappear from the famous Friday update, incredible.

Perhaps, I don't recall seeing a star mark on anything other than a screwback plate or screw, the exception being one EK2 and a screwback EK1 but these were the only instances that I can recall. It would make sense to signify that plates & screws were base metal but why only mark these and not the cross? Another thing I would attribute to crosses marked Silber is that the examples I've seen don't show the Black age patina that high Silver content pieces normally display. Suprisingly there are still a lot of if's & maybes regarding these marks.

I must admit these Blue core are my favorite examples. I am curious as to the meaning of the Silber mark. I've heard two different schools of thought on it. The first is that they are pure Silver and this was the Bavarian way of content stamping and the second is that they contain little or no Silver & the Silber mark was actually a sort of promissory note to exchange for a higher Silver content piece when resources were in abundance once more. No idea which if any of these statements are correct. Nice job on this thread, a very good reference.

There are makers that use WS & SW. I can't really tell from the close up shot but it looks like a Z or N and an S on it's side ? A clearer shot would help if possible. The cross is a good one though. I've seen crazy prices for EK2s on U.K & U.S sites, from 100 pounds to $250 OUCH! The euro market still seems sane but saying this 30- 85 euros is the range depending on the seller.

I have a couple of examples of this type of cross, matching core and frame which, I have always been under the assumption, were produced in the 20s/30s. Here's mine, it's identical to yours Chris, a long lost relation?

Could be, the rules are for Imperials is that there are none haha. I've seen 20/30s models with this crown/core/pin also. Could be one before the LDO regs in 41. Did the LDO regulations apply to the manufacture of Imperial crosses?

Nice 1920/30's era cross.

That is indeed one in a thousand my friend I should have known either you or motorhead would have had one of these! Very nice score FK. Chris

Hi Rich The hinge on your cross is mounted in the identical manner of my Imperial Zimmerman, interesting.

Yeah, nice pick up Rich. It's nice when you get a surprise. I wonder though why some manufacturers didn't stamp their pieces? Maybe it was the stamp guy's day off or they forgot where they put the punch or perhaps some just got missed on the assembly line. Whatever the reason it just adds to the mystique of these Imperial awards. Chris

It looks exactly like my Godet more or less, so it must be. Nice cross.

There seems to be # 5, 6 or 9 & 8 war era marked crosses that I've seen so far, not to mention the LV numbered series. I have no idea what these numbers refer to or even if they are from a maker. I would like to find out one day the significance but I fear this info is lost in a dusty box somewhere. Makes for a nice mystery though.

Hi Maja The mark looks like a 7 to me and the H mark on the small ring is assumed to be an inspection mark. According to the list of makers at the kaiser bunker, J would or might be a Junker made cross. Chris

Both

Reunited. The Ek2 has about 90% of it's frosting still, amazing after all this time.

Hi gents I took pity on this one, the last dog in the pound sort of deal. I think it might be another post war model by the look of the crown?

Well said Micha. This seems to be the only area that hasn't been REALLY researched for some reason. There is a lot of knowledge on the forums and members from all over the world, I'm sure with the collective help of everyone we could at least put a sizable dent into the mystery of these maker/jeweler marks. I've seen a lot of posts from members who have manufacturer named medal bars for instance, maybe this would be a starting point by starting a thread for these to compare with known marks? The other alternative would be, I think, to pay a visit to the Bundesarchiv, I'm not even sure if they would have the records, but they must exist somewhere. I haven't had much success finding any info online except for an interesting site about hallmarks in general http://www.medalnet.net/Hallmarks.htm A very difficult challenge I'm sure, but not impossible.