Schießplatzmeister

[attachmentid=61663] Finally, the chance that all of us have been waiting for! We are now able to buy v. Richthofen's PLM, PLM document, and Pilot's Badge from a seller who doesn't know what treasures he has! This is only the 4th or 5th time that I have seen it offered. I can't believe that no one else has purchased it yet! The description really has me laughing. The fellow must have a Doctorate of Jurisprudence! "The Pour le Merite medal is Gold plated sliver or silver like metal. The letters look to be gold inlays. It is enameled on both sides and has a ribbon. The pilots badge is made of silver or silver like metal can't be sure, It is solid not the cutout version. Both medals show signes of wear with small surface scratches that can only be seen with a magnifying glass. Both pieces have a high quality heavy Jewelry feel to them. As a bonus I will include the document in the picture. It came with the Pour le merite and it is written German. I suspect that it is a certificate of authenticity or an award document but can't be sure. I have no information as to where or when these items were made." I have a suspicion that they were made last week or so! "SPM"

Obverse and reverse of MEII (obverse has cypher, but sometimes they were worn with the reverse showing by recipients).

Dear gjw: You have posed an excellent question. This is an area regarding Prussian awards that is often overlooked. To clarify, the Prussian Military Honor Decorations (not the General Honor Decorations) were awarded for circumstances involving personal bravery for enlisted soldiers from 1864 onward. I will mention only the awards after 1864 as prior to this date the award system was a bit more byzantine and it would take a good deal of time to explain the little that I know. For the 1864 campaign, the 1st class (cross) and 2nd class (medal) were awarded to enlisted soldiers for bravery. This happened again during the 1866 campaigns, and then again during the China incursion in 1902 and during the DSWA conflicts. There may also have been some other colonial conflicts where a few awards were made, but I have no specific information regarding these at hand at the moment. The awards were usually made on the black with white stripes "Iron Cross" ribbon, but awards were also made on the white ribbon with black stripes for special (non-combat) circumstances. The first class crosses are especially scarce, while the second class medals are often encountered and actually undervalued for what they represent and due to the relatively few numbers awarded compared to the EK. If you can find an award document for one of the 2nd class awards, you have a real gem! The prices for these have been getting very steep lately. I hope that this information is helpful. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Stijn: What I find fascinating is the document for the F?rstlich Hohenzollersches Ehrenkreuz dritter Klasse m/schw. It refers to the Officer's service in I.R. 40 during WWI and shows an actual award date of October 1933! I have not seen another like this. Very nice! Unfortunately, I have all of the pieces that are offered and will not be spending money to re-unite the group for the sake of history (it would be nice if someone does though). Shame on the greedy seller who doesn't care about the man who received these awards or his legacy. But what about the recipient's heirs who didn't care about Opa's medals and wanted money for a new DVD player/flat screen TV/etc. (they are not blameless either)? Unfortuantely, these objects that we treasure so much are generally not appreciated by many people. In fact, there is still an anti-military stigma in Germany among many of the younger generation who have a strong dislike for things military (a legacy of the post-WWII era). I praise all who collect these items for not what they are worth, but for what they represent; the courage, honor, and duty of generations that are now gone. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Stogieman: What super pieces! I have not seen another cased Saxon Landwehr LS bar either, and the miniature is something that is undoubtedly almost unique. Thanks for showing us these great items! Unfortunately, my technical ability to send scans or photos is still lacking at this time, so I ask that someone else submit another mystery case for our analysis. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Stogieman: My guess would be that this is a case for a Royal Saxon Fire Brigade Service Award Bar. Thanks! "SPM"

Hello Folks: I see that the Togoland document and EKI lot were pulled off of Ebay before they ran their course! Interesting! Maybe the seller is honest and saw this thread. Maybe it shamed him into not offering the item as it hadn't been described as a forgery. He was probably just a middle-man selling the stuff for someone else and wasn't an "expert" as others sometimes claim that they are. In any case, it is good to see this item not be purchased by someone who thought they were buying a rare and genuine item! Caveat Emptor! "SPM"

Dear Chris: This "beauty" looks very familiar (see page 181 of "The Iron Time")! That one is almost identical, and is marked "DARESSALAM". I always thought that it looked like rubbish, and seeing the this one, I am even more convinced of it being a forgery. It is nice to see someone else who thinks the same way. I feel sorry for the fellow that wants to spent hard-earned money on this one! Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Wildcard: My scanner isn't cooperating for the moment and my digital camera took a spill and hasn't worked since. I will have to pass on producing the next entry for consideration. So, is there someone else out there that has a case for us to look at? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Wildcard: I see that no one else wants to play, so I will take a stab at it. My guess is that this is a case for a Mecklenburg-Schwerin Greifen-Orden Ehrenkreuz. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Wildcard: I recall a group of two ~20mm W?rttemberg campaign (perhaps Paris)/bravery medals in silver. I don't recall specifically which ones as it was some time ago (over 10 years). At first they looked OK, but upon close inspection they were undoubtedly cast forgeries of recent (at that time) manufacture. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello folks: Unfortunately Steve, I am with Les on this one. The seller is a known purveyor of counterfeit items. The fact that these have appeared more than once should be an indicator of recent (very recent) manufacture. I years ago saw this individual selling good quality cast copies of very rare miniature Napoleonic campaign medals. Caution should be used by everyone when dealing with this fellow. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear EuRob: Your piece is counterfeit as pointed-out by others. What is interesting is that the seam on the edge is a tell-tale sign of an electrotype (although I can't be 100% certain without a first-hand visual inspection). I have run into many older electrotype copies of Imperial German medals on the market. Some of them are of rather common medals such as this. I do not think these are made recently as there are cheaper ways to make superb castings with today's technology. See Andreas Schulze-Ising's excellent article regarding electrotypes at www.medalnet.net. Good luck finding a genuine issued piece. As these medals are becoming more popular, copies are to be found in abundance (not to mention the campaign bars that are appearing!). Send this one back as fast as you can! Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Rick: I don't recall this group coming up for auction yet. It may still be awaiting sale, or George may have sold it at an OMSA convention as he sometimes did with groups that he couldn't identify the recipient for. Unfortunately, most of his friends who were faithful convention goers who would remember seeing it have also now passed-on (Neil, Eric, and Tony). I do not attend OMSA every year, but go when convenient. Perhaps Wildcard can remember seeing it (if it was every offered at a convention). Best regards, "SPM" p.s.: Rick, I thank you for all of your efforts to salvage what you can of the invaluble information that undoubtedly mostly would have ended-up in trash cans. Although your toils may go unrewarded (at least financially), there are many of us out here that appreciate it!

Hello again David: For the RAO book, only the year and last name, title, and rank/position are listed. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello David: The day, month, and year of award are listed, along with the title, and first and last name of the recipient. Also listed is the recipient's position/rank. In a vert few cases the first name is left out presumably because it was not readable in the original rolls or was left off of the rolls. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello again: According to the 1914 Bavarian Military Handbook, Moritz Wibel was a Major (promoted March 3. 1911) with the following awards: EKII (1870) Jubil?ums=Medaille Kriegsdendm?nze f?r 1870-71 aus Bronze Armee=Denkzeichen 1866 Dienstauszeichnungs=Kreuz 2. Klasse (24 year service cross) Preu?ische Erinnerungs=Medaille (Centennial Medal) There was also a Captain Moritz Wibel listed who was born in 1875 (perhaps the son of our 1870-71 veteran). Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Tom: A great pair of documents that you have here! The best that I can make out is the following (a real challenge to my eyes too!). Your first document is to K?niglich Bayerische Hauptmann Moritz Wibel, 3te Infanterie=Regiment "Prinz Carl von Bayern" The second document is to Seconde=Leutnant Oscar Haunit, 7te. Ostpreu?isches Infanterie=Regiment No. 44. It looks like Wibel is listed in the 1914 Milit?r-Handbuch (more on this later). Although I have complete histories of the war, it would take several hours to give you a breakdown of the campaign activities for each regiment and unfortunately, I do not have time at this moment to do so. Perhaps I can post more information later. I have never seen preliminary documents issued during the time of the actual war akin to those that are seen for Weltkrieg (WWI). It seems that ALL of the EK documents were dated the same (19. Januar 1873), with Officers getting the type that you show and with enlisted troops getting a smaller Besitz-Zeugni? without the Royal/Imperial signature of Wilhelm I. The only exceptions that I have seen are a letter from Wilhelm I to General of Infantry v. Goeben awarding an EKI dated 18. October 1870 and a Cabinet-Order dated 9. M?rz 1871 awarding an EKII to Major General Krug v. Nidda upon his retirement (both shown in Raksch). Congratulations regarding your great acquistions! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello everyone: An interesting photograph from a time of difficulty on the homefront. I believe that the phrase "Ohne Bezugsschein" refers to the lack of "Bezugsscheine der Reichsbekleidungsstelle und Lebensmittelausweis" which was a government-issued document listing all members of a household and food rations that the household was entitled to. Without one of these, surely, there wasn't much to eat (only what could be had illegally on the black market in cities, or which could be purchased, begged, or stolen from farmers in rural areas). Therefore, those who didn't qualify may have had to work for a living (in a job such as this!) so that they could get food. Perhaps these women were displaced from areas in the East, were criminals, or were widowed, single, or just extremely poor. This would explain the fact that they don't look very happy to aid the war effort! I wonder how often there was a bit of a problem (an accidental explosion) and a new group had to take over production. All of the sudden, after looking at this photograph, my job doesn't seem so bad after all! Gru?, "SPM"

Dear Mark: This ribbon combination for Wilhelm II was featured in the "B?nderkatalog" br Krischer and Nimmergut on page 272. The tunic pictured in the book is a different one (in your photo the ribbon stops at the piping and is sewn there, the ribbon on page 272 wraps around the back of the tunic flap), but with the same ribbon combination. The first ribbon is the Bavarian Military Max Joseph Order, then follows the Saxon, MilitarySt. Henry Order, W?rttemberg Military Merit Order, Austria Military Maria Theresia Order, Baden Military Karl Friedrich Merit Order, then the Hanseatic Crosses for Hamburg, Bremen, and L?beck. Based upon the context of the auction, and the fact that another source is confirming that this composite award combination ribbon existed previously, I feel confident that the ribbon was that of the Kaiser. I do not specialize in uniforms, their construction, or how to spot forgeries/alterations, so I can't comment otherwise with authority. An interesting piece of history! I wonder how many just WWI-era uniforms the Kaiser had? I'm sure that he probably had a great many. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear amyagkiy: This interesting item that you have shared with us appears to have a bit of Japanese design influence. So, perhaps someone who is familiar with Japanese Orders and medals could be of some help. It appears to be made from gilded metal (bronze or "pot metal") and is definately made in the post-WWII period. It also doesn't appear to be an official award. But since this isn't my "cup of tea", I will defer to those who specialize in items from that part of the world. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Saschaw: Thank you for sharing the counterfeit Baden long-service bar with us. A good-quality counterfeit and very scary. Note that an English translation for the word "gepr?gt" is "struck", such as in "die-struck" or "coined". The Ebay seller "raritaetensammlerclub" has some very convincing counterfeit pieces. It is worth paying attention to these as they will undoubtedly start showing-up for sale with various dealers and at shows in the future as mistakes are made and collectors who have purchased these pieces try to unload them. It looks like most folks in Germany anyway know to stay away! Thanks to forums such as this, the criminal (I also have other not-so-nice words for them) forgers, don't have too many places to hide and their schemes can't be as profitable as they were in days-gone-by before the internet. Gru?, "SPM"

Dear EuRob: The cross that you purchased is original and it has an original ribbon. So rest assured regarding that. The question of the "bumps" is an interesting one. Let's explore further. These crosses were cast from Iron, bronze, and "Kriegsmetall" (which was basically a predominantly Zink alloy of whatever non-war essential scrap metal could be located at the time of manufacture). As Kev in Deva points out, the bumps are probably casting flaws. This is not a concern, as many of these highly produced items were not finely finished and quality control was sometimes lacking. Another explanation, is that the cross is made from "Kriegsmetall" that has started to oxidize under the finish, thereby causing "bumps" to form. Usually though, the oxidation can be seen as a white-coloured powder which breaks through the outer finish and appears on the surface in spots. Your cross however has a nice bronze colour to it. It does not appear to be iron either (but if a magnet is attracted to it, it certainly is). So, in summary, I also believe that you have an original bronze cross with casting flaws. I differ a bit with Kev in Deva however regarding counterfeit Imperial German Orders and medals. I have seen some very common items (worth insignificant amounts of money) "copied". Some of these were undoubtedly made after the issue period for veterans and are of lesser quality. I am still astounded from time to time however to find counterfeit "common" awards meant to deceived collectors. So although not ALL have been copied, MANY have been in my opinion. Congratulations regarding your fine purchase! Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Jacky: Excellent observation on your part and a good question. As we can see, men in civillian attire also sometimes wore their awards on "bows". If you notice however, the ribbon ends are squarely finished and not "swallow-tail" cut. This is a slight difference from a bow that a female recipient would wear an award on. I happen to have an 1813 EKII manufactured in the 1830's-40's which is on an old bow. It was probably worn like the award pictured above with civillian attire. I have also seen photos with Hussar soldiers wearing their "Attilla's" that were wearing EKII's on "bows" (there is no button-hole on an Attilla, only a loop for the toggle button!). Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Jason: Your observations and intuition are spot on! The first bar is from an 1870-71 veteran. The 1870 EK and the 1870-71 campaign medal are easy to find (although there are decent-quality forgeries of the EK out there and good pieces are getting a bit expensive). The real mystery is WHICH SEHO medal went in the third position. That is something that we can never be certain about. It would probably be best to take the medals off and be satisfied as having a superb field ribbon bar. Congratulations on your very fine find! Best regards, "SPM"